Hex: Shards of Fate TCG - Set 7: Frostheart 6/29/17

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a_skeleton_03

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Sithro_sl said:
Yeah, but the thing is, after the block is over, you're left with a bunch of cards no one wants anymore.

Hell, I don't even know anyone who plays unlimited in Magic.
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I think this might get you a little bit happier.

The Void Society has come to Entrath to gather raw materials for their war effort back home. They take cards and gear you don't need and, in return, give you items that can combine into new and unique PvE cards and gear. Players can gain access to these crafting cards and gear by turning the cards and gear they don't need into component parts, then assemble the crafting components into items. Unlock more powerful items and crafting recipes as you level your crafting skill.
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Unless you are completely against PVE.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Sithro_sl said:
Yeah, but the thing is, after the block is over, you're left with a bunch of cards no one wants anymore.

Hell, I don't even know anyone who plays unlimited in Magic.
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You forget one major difference, PvE. Even if cards are blocked in PvP, they're usable in PvE, which means there's still going to be a demand from a certain segment of the playerbase for cards that are blocked, which you'll be able to trade for viable pvp cards. You won't be able to trade everything off, but they won't instantly have no value anymore.
 
Kuro

Kuro

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Rotating blocks keep the game fresh and allow new players to join without facing too monumental a stumbling block to actually competing.

Anyone who is opposed to them, should be in the Everquest thread(s) leghumping AA's "New Player Repellent Spray" effect.
 
Lumi

Lumi

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So far I'm just annoyed they don't seem to have any type of sealed deck tourneys. This is one of my favorite parts of magic and seems to have a big following. I hope their prize structure is better than magic because MTGO sucks complete dick. Such a blatant scam really.
 
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Goldenmean_sl

shitlord
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Luminati_sl said:
So far I'm just annoyed they don't seem to have any type of sealed deck tourneys. This is one of my favorite parts of magic and seems to have a big following. I hope their prize structure is better than magic because MTGO sucks complete dick. Such a blatant scam really.
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I'm curious what makes you like sealed deck more than draft? Pretty much the only benefit from my perspective is that it gets you into the game faster than drafting. But drafting gives you a sense of the metagame as it stands at the table (the micro-metagame if you will), and seems generally more interesting from a deck construction viewpoint. Agree on MTGO being a ridiculous scam, for sure.
 
sakkath

sakkath

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Goldenmean_sl said:
I'm curious what makes you like sealed deck more than draft?
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Two important differences between sealed and draft:
Luck is an important attribute in games (which is why so many people prefer Euchre over 500 for example). Luck is a bigger factor in Sealed than in Draft.
Sealed also feels a lot more casual (and therefore "fun" in many peoples eyes) than draft. Draft is a very competitive format.

Back when I played MTG (which was a long time ago) I much preferred one format over the other depending on what kind of mood I was in. If I wanted to relax and have a bit of fun playing around I preferred the laid back atmosphere of sealed. If I was feeling competitive and wanted to beat people I went for draft. Kind of like what makes me decide to either run WZs or flashpoints in SWTOR each night!
 
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Goldenmean_sl

shitlord
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sakkath_sl said:
Two important differences between sealed and draft:
Luck is an important attribute in games (which is why so many people prefer Euchre over 500 for example). Luck is a bigger factor in Sealed than in Draft.
Sealed also feels a lot more casual (and therefore "fun" in many peoples eyes) than draft. Draft is a very competitive format.
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Makes sense, I suppose. I'm never in a mood for more rather than less luck though, so I didn't even factor in that some (possibly many/most) people view that as a positive. It's an almost entirely alien perspective for me.
 
Lumi

Lumi

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Goldenmean_sl said:
I'm curious what makes you like sealed deck more than draft? Pretty much the only benefit from my perspective is that it gets you into the game faster than drafting. But drafting gives you a sense of the metagame as it stands at the table (the micro-metagame if you will), and seems generally more interesting from a deck construction viewpoint. Agree on MTGO being a ridiculous scam, for sure.
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I'm a huge draft fan actually and prefer it over sealed for sure but I still really like sealed deck and believe there is actually quite a deep level of skill involved plus it's the only other type of limited format which is what I prefer. To not have it at all just seems kinda weak to me.
 
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Goldenmean_sl

shitlord
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Luminati_sl said:
I'm a huge draft fan actually and prefer it over sealed for sure but I still really like sealed deck and believe there is actually quite a deep level of skill involved plus it's the only other type of limited format which is what I prefer. To not have it at all just seems kinda weak to me.
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Seems like all decks are preconstructeds, but they could mimic it easily enough by just giving you x booster packs to construct from. Would barely even require extra coding. Might not be in at launch, but I wouldn't be surprised if they added something similar down the line.
 
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Draegan_sl

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I don't see any reason why they wouldn't eventually add all types of tournaments eventually, if not at launch. Can't be that difficult to implement it.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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A couple of things. Excuse my ignorance I've never played a Tcg before. Am I basically screwed playing this game if I don't buy in at one of the upper tiers? Sounds like pay to win. How deep is the gameplay? Does it come down to whoever plays the Card of surprise buttsechs and you are screwed if you have inferior cards? Or is there more strategy then that?
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Abefroman_sl said:
A couple of things. Excuse my ignorance I've never played a Tcg before. Am I basically screwed playing this game if I don't buy in at one of the upper tiers? Sounds like pay to win. How deep is the gameplay? Does it come down to whoever plays the Card of surprise buttsechs and you are screwed if you have inferior cards? Or is there more strategy then that?
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Have you played any card game before? They are all "pay to win" as in you need cards to play and you need to pay for them ....

The gameplay itself is more complicated than one powerful card.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Have you played any card game before? They are all "pay to win" as in you need cards to play and you need to pay for them ....

The gameplay itself is more complicated than one powerful card.
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What I meant was is it even possible to compete with people that are dropping 500 bucks If I only pick up a deck here and there.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Abefroman_sl said:
A couple of things. Excuse my ignorance I've never played a Tcg before. Am I basically screwed playing this game if I don't buy in at one of the upper tiers? Sounds like pay to win. How deep is the gameplay? Does it come down to whoever plays the Card of surprise buttsechs and you are screwed if you have inferior cards? Or is there more strategy then that?
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I haven't read past this post, so maybe someone answered already.

Short answer: no

TCGs are exactly that: Collectible Card Games. The nature of the game is that the more money you spend, the better chance you have at getting better cards which makes your decks better. Currently, the higher the tier, the more packs you get at a discounted price. This essentially gives those people a higher pool of cards to play with at the beginning. This essentially helps players have "better decks" in tournaments early on, but those people can get super-unlucky and open 500 packs of shit too.

There are formats, like drafts, where every player is on equal footing. The "Pro" Tier gives you one free draft per week, but no other benefits. People without the Pro benefit will essentially have to spend $7 per draft, or $1 + 3 packs. You can get packs by buying them for $2 ea. or by winning tournaments. You could also use packs that you got with the KS as well.

Now all packs are from Set 1. After a certain amount of time, Hex will have a second Set of cards that all of your KS packs will not be used for.

Now there are a ton of PVE bonuses that help you gain xp faster, get more loot, have more cards etc. This effects PVP in only one way: they may have free-for-all tournaments that allow PVE cards for shits and giggles, but those won't be serious games.

There are zero PVP cards given away at higher tiers. The only thing you're getting is alternative art.

So in the end, the more packs you have the more chance you have of getting the uber cards. But that doesn't mean you need them to win. A better player, with luck and a good deck build, can often win against someone else with better cards. Gameplay is exactly like MTG so you can read up on that if you want to get an idea of how it plays.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Thanks for the reply. I was always interested in these type of games but never knew anyone that played them.
 
A

addlemixie

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Format also matters. When I used to play MTGO I played almost exclusively sealed formats (where you open up new packs during the event and build your deck from them) because I didn't have the cardpool to compete against people packing 4x card of super awesomeness in constructed events. When you would open up a random set of cards for an event, it became more about skill in deckbuilding versus the pay to win that you are talking about (plus skill in piloting the deck).

That isn't to say that it will be entirely pay to win though. A good player/deck builder should be able to be competitive with an inferior card pool.

This is also focused on the pvp side of things. Keep in mind that supposedly the game will have a large pve side as well. Judging from the $250 kickstarter tiers, there are 3/5 that are pve centred and one that is centred on pvp. I would assume that that means that 60% of their effort is being put into the pve campaign. I guess we'll see if that is a mistaken assumption at some point soon.

If you haven't played tcgs, you can download and fire up the mtgo client and see if you can spectate some games. It may give you an idea of what it'll be like, though if you don't know how to play, it might not be much use.

The other thing you could try is to find an old copy of the microposehttp://portingteam.com/files/file/77...handalar-2012/shandalar game. This is basically what I am hoping the hex pve part is equivalent to. And I have no idea on if that download works. I just googled it and saw that the comments were still active recently.
 
Mahes

Mahes

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Abefroman_sl said:
What I meant was is it even possible to compete with people that are dropping 500 bucks If I only pick up a deck here and there.
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This game has as much to do with luck as it does based around what cards a player has in thier deck. Dropping 500 down does not guarantee a player will win by any stretch. All that does is save a person money down the road if they suspect they will be playing the game a lot and for a long time. Also it gives a player some cards that have alternate art on them which has no effect on the actual ability to win a game. The very best decks can lose to a deck that is bad if the right cards fall into place. Also, like poker, there is a strategy that increases your chances of winning, but like poker obviously does not guarantee it.
 
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Sithro

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Pyros_sl said:
You forget one major difference, PvE. Even if cards are blocked in PvP, they're usable in PvE, which means there's still going to be a demand from a certain segment of the playerbase for cards that are blocked, which you'll be able to trade for viable pvp cards. You won't be able to trade everything off, but they won't instantly have no value anymore.
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Actually yeah, this is a good point. I just hope PVE becomes a big thing in this game, otherwise my old cards will be worthless. Hopefully they continue to push it.
 
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Goldenmean_sl

shitlord
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Abefroman_sl said:
A couple of things. Excuse my ignorance I've never played a Tcg before. Am I basically screwed playing this game if I don't buy in at one of the upper tiers? Sounds like pay to win. How deep is the gameplay? Does it come down to whoever plays the Card of surprise buttsechs and you are screwed if you have inferior cards? Or is there more strategy then that?
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Draegan and others answered this in a fair amount of depth, but I'll add something I didn't see mentioned in the other responses. While it takes a stupid amount of money to keep on top of your average TCG in an uber-completionist sense (you'd want 4 copies of every single card), it's perfectly possible to just play around very casually, maybe do a couple of drafts, figure out what you like, or what a good deck in the current meta-game is, and then focus entirely on buying cards that supplement that on the secondary market (ie, the auction house)

As an example from the Magic world, you could check outhttp://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.aspThat page lists all of the recent standard decks that have come in first place in major tournaments. Looks like those seem to run about 300$ median (which is a bit inflated because it looks like the metagame is currently leaning towards the Naya humans decks, so everyone wants the cards that make that deck up. Also, Hex singles should be cheaper, as Hex boosters are cheaper) That probably still seems high, but if you're good enough at drafting and they set up their prize pool in a logical manner, you can probably accumulate PvP cards that way, as well as trading off singles you don't want, and grinding PvE for gold to buy cards on the AH. Because there's an AH, I'm sure that you could just play that to make money as well.

As an aside, I hope they're smart enough about this that they'll have some sort of area in the game where people can post decklists, with links straight off of those to the auction house (or expose API hooks so that a third party could set something like that up)
 
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