Home buying thread

Cad

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Oh so now you're going to try to argue semantics? "I was merely saying that if you can afford to rent a 4 bedroom apartment with 4 other people that you can afford to buy that one bedroom plus a share of the other living space!"

K bud.

No you dumb piece of shit, I said anything you can afford to rent you can afford to buy minus down payment. So if you're renting a $2k/mo apartment, the mortgage/insurance/taxes/maintenance on that apartment will be something less than $2k/mo, otherwise the rent wouldn't be that low. And rent prices will adjust to the market prices of the day, landlords aren't fucking idiots.

If you can afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, alone, you can afford to buy a similar apartment. This isn't controversial in the slightest, and you arguing it makes your trolling transparent. Fuck off.
 
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Khane

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You can't buy apartments in most places in this country and the places you can have things like rent control. "You dumb piece of shit". So what the fuck is your point?
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I've read that in places like NYC some areas that have had rent control for a long time just end up getting picked up by rich people. As there's no reason not to pay the money for it if its inconsequential to you and the spot is prime real estate. They then secure these rent control units forever.
 

Tenks

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How? Every city I saw was like that. But Lviv, Ukraine was extremely affordable and just as nice as any other European city I've been to. Bizarre.

I think comparing eastern Europe to western Europe is the same as saying "You can buy three 3000 sqft houses in Alabama for the same price as a 900 sqft apartment in SF. Why would anyone live there?" It is kind of like an apples and oranges comparison.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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I think comparing eastern Europe to western Europe is the same as saying "You can buy three 3000 sqft houses in Alabama for the same price as a 900 sqft apartment in SF. Why would anyone live there?" It is kind of like an apples and oranges comparison.
At least get your analogy right. A 3ksqft house im Alabama is lime $300-350k. So more like, a small estate with acres of land and a 6ksqft house in Alabama would get you a 900sqft condo on SF.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I think comparing eastern Europe to western Europe is the same as saying "You can buy three 3000 sqft houses in Alabama for the same price as a 900 sqft apartment in SF. Why would anyone live there?" It is kind of like an apples and oranges comparison.

Lviv is actually really nice. I wouldn't have tried to compare it otherwise. I've mentioned it before in the Travel thread but if you want all the niceties of West Europe at 1/4 the price. Lviv is the place to go.
 

Control

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So if you're renting a $2k/mo apartment, the mortgage/insurance/taxes/maintenance on that apartment will be something less than $2k/mo, otherwise the rent wouldn't be that low. And rent prices will adjust to the market prices of the day, landlords aren't fucking idiots.

That's mostly true of course, though maybe less so when talking about some European cities where the average property has a FAR lower turnover rate than the US. Much of the property is family-owned for generations or at the very least, bought long enough ago that current property values have little to do with their mortgage prices. Many apartment blocks are also coops that give residents and their families first right of refusal on any purchases, keeping the market for the units in a pretty tight circle. And then the property owning families support zoning regulations that prevent new housing from being built to keep their property values and rent prices high... Someone buying property today has to put up enough money to overcome all that.
 

Jysin

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Don't worry, we are not alone in the US with this new trend of exploding debt and stagnant wages. UK seems to be joining in on the nonsense.

Bank of England warns of complacency over big rise in personal debt

The Bank of England has told banks, credit card companies and car loan providers that they risk fresh action against reckless lending as it warned of a looming “spiral of complacency” about mounting consumer debt. In its toughest warning yet about the possibility of a rerun of the financial crisis that devastated the economy 10 years ago, Threadneedle Street admitted it was alarmed about the increase in the amount of money being borrowed on easy terms over the past year.

Over the past year, Brazier said, household incomes had grown by just 1.5% but outstanding car loans, credit card balances and personal loans had risen by 10%.

Strong competition for business was resulting in more lending at higher loan-to-income (LTI) multiples, with the share at an LTI above 4 increasing from 19% to 26% over the past two years.

His speech came just a fortnight before the 10th anniversary of the start of the global financial crisis in August 2007.

“Ten years ago, an unsafe financial system caused financial crisis and economic disaster”, he said. “The western banking system had expanded rapidly. Banks – and their regulators – had been blind to the basic fact that more debt meant greater risk of loss."

“Complacency gave way to crisis. Companies and households were unable to refinance their debts. The result was economic disaster. In this country alone, close to a million jobs were lost and more than 100,000 businesses failed. Too much debt made the financial system, and the economy, unsafe. Too many people paid the price when those risks materialised.”
 

Pops

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Rents Across The US Hit A New All Time High | Zero Hedge

Think here you are seeing the end effect of QE. Notice homeownership spiking last decade, forcing prices to records, then collapsing. Now record low onwership and record rents. Record levels of younger adults living at home or renting.

May not have inflation elsewhere in the economy, but you sure do in housing.
 

Siliconemelons

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No you dumb piece of shit, I said anything you can afford to rent you can afford to buy minus down payment. So if you're renting a $2k/mo apartment, the mortgage/insurance/taxes/maintenance on that apartment will be something less than $2k/mo, otherwise the rent wouldn't be that low. And rent prices will adjust to the market prices of the day, landlords aren't fucking idiots.

If you can afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, alone, you can afford to buy a similar apartment. This isn't controversial in the slightest, and you arguing it makes your trolling transparent. Fuck off.

As stated above this is in general true - metros like NYC and other rent controlled fuckery is its entirely own jacked up shit.

Rent not days is > or = to total purchase price mortgage prices...it is not like "it used to be" were rent was "cheaper" and you rented while you "save up" for a house... that is just not how things really work anymore. While I think that is a good way to do things- that is not how things really work now days.
 

Qhue

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Yeah. A buddy of mine said to me 'oh, why not rent for awhile and save up...?' Rent prices in Boston are insanely high for even a 1 bedroom place anywhere near a T stop. The only way you are getting under $1600 a month is if you move out to the burbs and take the commuter rail in... well if you are already going out that far and still paying THAT much then might as well buy a house instead of a condo.
 

Big Phoenix

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How retarded do you have to be to think renting is a better option past your mid 20s? Not only that but fuck apartment living.
 

sakkath

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Renting can be a better option depending on the market. In Sydney for example, you can rent a house in a reasonable suburb for $7-800/week. Buying the same house would cost $2mil, or over $2000/week just in interest alone. Renting and investing the thousands per month difference in cost in the market instead can easily be a better financial option considering the decade of double digit capital gains is probably over. Of course then you lose the satisfaction of owning your own home. It becomes more a lifestyle decision than a financial decision.

In other Australian cities on the other hand, it's $400/week in rent or $300k to buy.. Good rental return for investors there.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Renting can be a better option depending on the market. In Sydney for example, you can rent a house in a reasonable suburb for $7-800/week. Buying the same house would cost $2mil, or over $2000/week just in interest alone. Renting and investing the thousands per month difference in cost in the market instead can easily be a better financial option considering the decade of double digit capital gains is probably over. Of course then you lose the satisfaction of owning your own home. It becomes more a lifestyle decision than a financial decision.

In other Australian cities on the other hand, it's $400/week in rent or $300k to buy.. Good rental return for investors there.

Do you not have insane property taxes? A house worth $2Mil would force the owner to charge way more in rent here just to cover the taxes on it.
 

Khane

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$800/wk is ~$3200/mo and based on those cost comparisons is not much different than trying to rent vs buy in suburbs of many major cities here in the US.
 
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sakkath

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Do you not have insane property taxes? A house worth $2Mil would force the owner to charge way more in rent here just to cover the taxes on it.
The only insane property tax is stamp duty (tax on buying a property) which would be ~$100k on a $2mil property. Once you own it ongoings are very low, there isn't even any land tax, just council rates to cover things like garbage collection and other council services. But anyway, people don't buy property in Sydney in order to make money renting (except maybe tiny apartments), they are buying in the hopes of rapid capital gains. Sydney has one of the most overheated property markets in the world.
 

Khane

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Other than the property taxes being a potentially large yearly cost (depending on where in the US you are) the rest of that statement isn't all that different from places like LA or NY or other major metro areas here. People won't typically buy single family homes in suburbs of major cities like that in hopes of making rental income. The market isn't really there for it. Property taxes here are so high in areas like NY that it would only take 6-8 years for that $100k upfront cost you have in Sydney to be met by yearly property tax costs, and then you'd need to keep paying those property taxes on a yearly basis forever.

Most Americans can't afford the ~$5000/mo+ a landlord would have to charge on a $2 million property to cover mortgage + other costs and the ones that can aren't renting. The market just isn't there for it. On the rare occasions you do see homes in that price range being rented out it's because the owners are going to be expats for an indeterminate amount of time but plan on returning or bought the house in 2007 and can't recoup costs by selling. Or it's been on the market and simply won't sell and the owners have already moved. In those scenarios rent will be closer to that ~$3200/mo mark because the rental market is there for that price range. As you said, in areas like that owning is more of a lifestyle choice than a financial choice.