How would you re-socialize MMOs?

So i would like to ask... what games post 2005 have introduced mechanics that promoted social interaction... perhaps we can start there ?

shabushabu_sl said:

So i would like to ask... what games post 2005 have introduced mechanics that promoted social interaction... perhaps we can start there ?

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Most modern games don't promote social tools outside of one's own already established friend group because most people don't want to play with "internet strangers". I see it often in people who are new to gaming and are intimidated by the old guard already present.

Your question cannot be answered without establishing a baseline as to what a mechanic that promotes social interaction is.

All I know is as soon as I reach the point in a MMO where I'm sitting around in town somewhere sending my resume to people or shouting for others to send their resume to me to sort through I almost immediately feel like I am done with the game.

Heallun_sl said:

Most modern games don't promote social tools outside of one's own already established friend group because most people don't want to play with "internet strangers". I see it often in people who are new to gaming and are intimidated by the old guard already present.

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Mind boggling conclusion there... or times have really changed.

Cybsled_sl said:

Your question cannot be answered without establishing a baseline as to what a mechanic that promotes social interaction is.

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I would say any game mechanic that promotes interaction between 2 or more players. Outside of the obvious ( pvp ).

shabushabu_sl said:

I would say any game mechanic that promotes interaction between 2 or more players. Outside of the obvious ( pvp ).

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To clarify that even further, you mean content that can't be defeated without a group or a class structure that's balanced towards group play instead of solo play. Because when you just say mechanics, that leaves a whole plethora of WoW and WoW clone offerings that could fill that criteria - most of them probably better than Everquest. That being said the exception that I will raise with a lot of the people who attempt to blame WoW for ruining the social aspect of the MMO is the fact that 99% have never even done any of the content that actually requires a group (or doing things that don't require a group, but are much more fun with a group). Which is really akin to someone getting to level 4 in Everquest and saying sorry guys, it just wasn't social enough I killed rat after rat and never ran into anyone and no one helped me.

JTheRuler_sl said:

To clarify that even further, you mean content that can't be defeated without a group or a class structure that's balanced towards group play instead of solo play. Because when you just say mechanics, that leaves a whole plethora of WoW and WoW clone offerings that could fill that criteria - most of them probably better than Everquest. That being said the exception that I will raise with a lot of the people who attempt to blame WoW for ruining the social aspect of the MMO is the fact that 99% have never even done any of the content that actually requires a group (or doing things that don't require a group, but are much more fun with a group). Which is really akin to someone getting to level 4 in Everquest and saying sorry guys, it just wasn't social enough I killed rat after rat and never ran into anyone and no one helped me.

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I don't think WoW killed it honestly. The WoW clones did. In vanilla i remember standing in ironforge selling enchantments ! And there was quite a bit of socialization in Vanilla WoW.

That said, it goes way beyond just combat. But yes, group combat by a "combined arms" team if you will is one example of how to promote socialization... of course the key is having enough group content to make that grouping experience the norm rather than the exception as is in most WoW clones of today.

Non combat activities also have taken a hit ( less crafter dependencies etc ) at times I feel like the industry has peeled away many of the things that made MMOs unique.. as the early ones really maximized the fact that "many ppl are online" in very many ways...

Non-combat crafting/roles took a hit when bots and slave-wage Asian goldsellers moved to corner the market in a way that made it harder for "real" players to compete. You had a slow creep later in EQ1 and to me it became worse starting with FFXI and moving forward.

Cybsled_sl said:

Your question cannot be answered without establishing a baseline as to what a mechanic that promotes social interaction is.

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Good point, and it can even be taken further. What do most players consider to be social interaction? Specifically the kind that they see to be missing in today's mmos.

EQ is I suppose considered a baseline of sorts, but it really shouldn't be. VOIP wasn't around in the early years for most players, so the types of interactions were very different.

Cybsled_sl said:

Your question cannot be answered without establishing a baseline as to what a mechanic that promotes social interaction is.

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Any game that doesn't have chat windows is anti-social. Therefore your baseline can is any game with a chat window.

What gets people social? Social events. Maybe an election of some sort? Where players can get more involved and have to get votes?

What to do in a game (mechanics wise), or auction shouting are really a thing of the past and they should stay there. We have evolved and I think it's for the better. There was nothing like spending 2 hours in North Freeport shouting. That was a hoot...

Where we should look is expanding on those two. What if crafting became such a corner stone of a game that a simple listing wasn't going to cut it? What if there was some massive bulk deal spanning lots of fantasy dollars that you have to talk it out and barter a deal? Maybe some crafting contract where your guild minions did work for another guild in return for protection? What if a raid or an encounter was dynamic in the sense that it wasn't following some formula so coordination was required, either through typing or voice chat? What if there wasn't a game forum on a website and it was some mechanic of an in-game feature? What if a bar or a tavern was actually "The forum" and you could chat in-game or out-of-game (via some app or widget or website)?

Drive some new thoughts into today's game and let the socializing come from that. Get creative for once and stop with the same crap.

And I hate chatting with 12 year olds and problems with high school crushes that rejected them.

Heallun_sl said:

Most modern games don't promote social tools outside of one's own already established friend group because most people don't want to play with "internet strangers". I see it often in people who are new to gaming and are intimidated by the old guard already present.

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I would go a step further and say that few modern games promote socialization with your established friends either since they tend to divide players by skill level and in many cases hard coded factions as well.

Kreugen_sl said:

All I know is as soon as I reach the point in a MMO where I'm sitting around in town somewhere sending my resume to people or shouting for others to send their resume to me to sort through I almost immediately feel like I am done with the game.

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This right here is how every game gets it's sub cancelled now

The "resume" feature is on players, though. Games have made it easier to gauge player power, so people try to weed out the "weak". That has pretty much existed in every MMO. Unless you want to go back to a no-damage meter/"what the f do stats do?" model, you will never escape that in any game which rewards min/maxing gameplay.

Cybsled_sl said:

The "resume" feature is on players, though. Games have made it easier to gauge player power, so people try to weed out the "weak". That has pretty much existed in every MMO. Unless you want to go back to a no-damage meter/"what the f do stats do?" model, you will never escape that in any game which rewards min/maxing gameplay.

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Exactly, gear score and instant dungeons accross realms do not promote socialization in my opinion... in the past reputation from grouping got you invites.. and reputation is based on socialization..

shabushabu_sl said:

Exactly, gear score and instant dungeons accross realms do not promote socialization in my opinion... in the past reputation from grouping got you invites.. and reputation is based on socialization..

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See to me (and likely a lot of others) my friends list was more of a tool to get something going quicker and I think pretty much anyone who raided with a top tier guild would agree that the real sticking point of those guilds was efficiency and not so much friendship. Of course I had some great friends both in and out of my guild, but when you're toting around 60+ people at any given time, the reality is I barely knew a 3rd of them, I fucking despised the other 3rd and that pretty much left 20ish people that I did like and would say that I actually would want to have a conversation with.

As much as I can't deny I want the "feeling" of EQ back, playing a game where it may take me in excess of an hour just to START working on whatever content that game has (exp, levels, dungeons, raids, etc.) is not ever going to be an option for me again.

Non-instanced competition (which usually results in griefing) is just anti -social socilization...essentially pvp in a pve environment. It can make for "interesting" situations sometimes, but it isn't anymore social than fragging someone in a shooter and teabagging their corpse.