Investing General Discussion

Blazin

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balancing what we can do vs what we should do is sometimes difficult with the constant tug of what we want short term vs long term.

I have usually approached large financial decisions like this by gauging the current impact versus waiting till the same decision becomes easier in the future. It seems to me you’re making the right choice here based on your summary.

How it will play out with the contractor is hard to predict if you don’t have a contract. Back in my first career in construction there was plenty of time you bust your ass trying to make a project work to then have it fall thru. Nobody ever paid me for my effort.

One way to play it is just say “im putting the project on hold”. Most likely he’ll say that sucks and move on but it leaves the window open for him to do the project in the future . If you want to be generous then try to come up with a reasonable hour number you think he has worked and pay him like $50/hr but if he acts like a dick then you dodged a bullet anyway and fuck em
 

Picasso3

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Just a simple addition here: do you really want the new house.

I've caught myself crunching numbers on 5000 square ft houses that look great and then it occurs to me that I don't even want to furnish or maintain it.

Natural tendency to always be looking up I think but if you're raising the question I would progress by verifying the most basic questions before getting into the details.
 

Captain Suave

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So I find myself at this precipice, where I can buy a house that will make me a financial slave for the rest of my life, or I could use the same money and make an investment that will help give me financial independence for the rest of my life. I think the decision is easy.

I agree. Having lived as an adult without, with, and then without again a large debt/asset ratio, the decrease in stress levels is indescribable. If you're otherwise responsible, saving, and investing, why cram yourself into a box? Keep your spending in check and then do whatever you want.

As far as the contractor, you don't exactly owe him anything but some compensation might be a nice gesture. Before telling him you're bailing, ask him how much time he's put in and use that as a benchmark.
 
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Cad

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I agree. Having lived as an adult without, with, and then without again a large debt/asset ratio, the decrease in stress levels is indescribable. If you're otherwise responsible, saving, and investing, why cram yourself into a box? Keep your spending in check and then do whatever you want.

As far as the contractor, you don't exactly owe him anything but some compensation might be a nice gesture. Before telling him you're bailing, ask him how much time he's put in and use that as a benchmark.

I always tell people that having fuck-you money isn’t about income (although it helps) its about living below your means. Whether you make $100k or $500k or $5M you should live on 50% of your income and bank the rest so you can walk away from whatever you need to. You are totally correct that it decreases stress, because financial independence is FREEDOM.
 
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Pops

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Ahhh I'm in an analysis panic!

I bought a nice lot... 0.88 acres, in a gorgeous upscale neighborhood. I bought house plans ($1500) and have been working with a contractor getting bids. He's done a lot of pre-work, including getting plans sent to the city and the neighborhood HOA, changing some designs of the house, etc. But no actual physical work. House bid is $820,000, including a $100,000 pool design, and that does not include the cost of the land ($150,000). So its $920,000 for everything. The 30 year note will be around $5600-$5700 per month. The total interest paid will be about $650,000, which makes the total cost of the house around $1,500,000. On my loan estimate it made a little note that said "in the first five years of ownership, you will have paid $245,000 in payments and have $65,000 equity."

Currently I owe $360,000 on my current house, which is on a 15 year note that is automatically paid bi-weekly ($1600) which puts it technically on a like 13.5 year schedule, and I pay extra, so it will be paid off even earlier. If I don't pay any early payments my total interest is about $140,000 which makes my total cost for this house about $500,000.

I try to be financially smart, but I still make a ton of mistakes and my spending is always out of control. I'm the guy that buys something for $1000, then sells it a month later for $100. I'm not trading a paperclip for a car on craigslist. So after getting all the financial estimates in I'm really feeling stressed. This is why:


1. Cash to close payment is $106,000 (10% plus closing). I invest most of my money so it took me a while to save this up. I feel like I finally have money to make a good financial move and it kills me to spend it all on the house downpayment.

2. While building the house, it will be interest only payments, which is still about $4000/month, on top of my current house note which is approx $3200/month, so thats $7200/month. I can afford this, but damn it feels stressful. And it definitely means drastically decreased savings while building. And I know while building there will be upgrades I want to make that will add extra tens of thousands of dollars to the house (better appliances, solid wood floors, etc.) And when I move out of my current house into the new house, I still have to sell my current house, and at that point I will be paying $5700/month for new house plus $3200/month for this house which would be $9000/month in mortgages.

3. With a new house comes new furniture and all sorts of other stuff. And I just re-did this house's furniture about six months ago and I was shocked at house quickly I blew $10,000 on furniture for just a few pieces. Add in a larger lot that needs landscaping and lawn maintenance, more house to keep clean, twice as many AC units that will need servicing, etc.

4. The difference between my current note and future note is $2500. That amount invested for 30 years at 6% is 2.3 million... That's lost money to retire on.

5. The total cost of just the mortgage for new house is $1,500,000, which is a million dollars more than the total cost of the mortgage for my current house. A million dollars. Thats so much time and work to pay that off.

6. My current financial plan is to be able to really just quit everything in about 13 years. My daughter is 6, I will not have more children. I pay child support which is a large amount, but that ends when she's 18. I also save for her college so she will have a full ride all taken care of. And my current house note ends in 13 years (or sooner). And I plan to cancel my disability insurance (about $750/month) when I have enough money in retirement. So at that time my monthly expenses go from like $11,000/month to like $1500/month or so. At that point I can *significantly* cut back at work and just do a few shifts per month to keep making enough money to live and not have to touch retirement money.

7. I have been dying to get into residential real estate. I firmly believe in buying income producing assets instead of liabilities (rich dad poor dad). I'm going today to look at a 4-plex apartment buliding that's listed for around $350,000 and each unit rents for around 875-1000. After 25% down can take in around $1600/month-ish, and when that shit's paid off significantly more, around $3000-$3200.

So I find myself at this precipice, where I can buy a house that will make me a financial slave for the rest of my life, or I could use the same money and make an investment that will help give me financial independence for the rest of my life. I think the decision is easy. It's hard to give up on building the house, because I really really want it, and while I can technically afford it, it just sounds miserable to be stuck with it. How bad is my contractor going to take this? How much $ should I offer him for "work done" to avoid a big mess?
Fuck the house.
 
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Pops

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fut_chart.png


curve 2.jpg


The market broke badly because of this virus. Filled the gap. Looks like some short term pain at least. In the zero int MMT who the hell knows. Other than another Fed cut.
 

Furry

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I expect there to be a LOT of panic in the market the next few months. Expect a few large swings that possibly go both up and down at times.
The market broke badly because of this virus. Filled the gap. Looks like some short term pain at least. In the zero int MMT who the hell knows. Other than another Fed cut.
Pretty well established that the disease is worse for old people and they have a lot of the money. I expect a lot of panic'd selling in april and may. Hard to know when the right time to dive back in will be, but I'm glad I did the math and got out before everyone else. Prepare for a super ugly few months. If you're a long term investor you'll be fine, but this is gonna hurt short-term.
 

OU Ariakas

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They calculate by "mill rate" in CT. Meaning 1 dollar for every 1000 appraised value on the property. Actually my taxes are going up this year by almost 1k because they raised my mill rate to 33. Which means 33 dollars for every 1k in appraised value. Which is literally the same as saying 3.3% and who knows why they try to confuse the issue this way. But some of the areas around here get as high as 7.4%.


We also have fire districts (which are taxed separately at their own mill rate), have to pay property tax on our vehicles, which is also a separate tax rate (and also subject to fire district taxation) and have income tax.
Where I'm at in PA we are at about 3-4% on real estate taxes, certain districts in urban areas can be near double that. Every time I look at houses to move it's always taxes that stop me not the home price.

Jesus Christ you two, move to fucking Florida or Texas. My wife and I are considering a new house since we had 2 more kids than we ever thought we would and on the newest of the new in the 2nd most premier suburb in Houston the new property tax rate will be 3.3%. If I had to pay income tax on top of that I'd move the next fucking day.
 

eXarc

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Sorry if this has been covered or asked but I’m trying to soak up and absorb as much knowledge about investing as possible, and I’ve been wishing I had the money to practice with but I’m not quite comfortable enough to put real shit on the line yet with my current obligations.
So, is there an app or program or anything that lets you trade fake money or input your hypothetical numbers and receive real time information and updates as to how it’s performing without any actual money involved?

Edit: I phrased this wrong, I know virtual stock market shit exists but I was wondering if any of you guys used any and what you would recommend if so.
 

Blazin

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Sorry if this has been covered or asked but I’m trying to soak up and absorb as much knowledge about investing as possible, and I’ve been wishing I had the money to practice with but I’m not quite comfortable enough to put real shit on the line yet with my current obligations.
So, is there an app or program or anything that lets you trade fake money or input your hypothetical numbers and receive real time information and updates as to how it’s performing without any actual money involved?

Edit: I phrased this wrong, I know virtual stock market shit exists but I was wondering if any of you guys used any and what you would recommend if so.

Most trading platforms have an option to load up paper money mode. In my experience the quotes are delayed on most platforms in this mode, but for practice that shouldn’t really matter your just practicing 20 mins in the past.

Td ameritrades thinkorswim trading app does this. You could open an account with a small sum just to get access to the tools,
 

eXarc

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Most trading platforms have an option to load up paper money mode. In my experience the quotes are delayed on most platforms in this mode, but for practice that shouldn’t really matter your just practicing 20 mins in the past.

Td ameritrades thinkorswim trading app does this. You could open an account with a small sum just to get access to the tools,
Had no idea, thanks so much.
 

Captain Suave

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China currenting putting in US$175 billion to prop up their markets. Next week should be interesting.
 
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eXarc

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What is going on in China? Are they basically saying it’s impossible for their market to fail/fall too much and why the 8% cap? I am still learning a lot, but this seems like some crazy shit from what little I do understand. Is this common?
 

Blazin

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Asian markets are strongly green this morning. What they are doing is supporting the market and if they are believed they don’t have to do anything other than say it. They at times are more overt than our Fed but not by much.
 

Blazin

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Oil is only 1.5% of my portfolio but man taking it on the chin, now below my cost basis on XOM and CVX
 
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Furry

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My personal belief as stated is that this will be a slow slide recession that draws out a few months. Slow panic with lots of authority figures trying their best to prop up the losses. European stocks and raw material industries/utilities will likely be the hardest hit. Europe in general is ill prepared for this. To many countries already running their economies like they are trying to recover from a recession. I have no idea what they'll be able to do if a real recession hits. They'll have to make the sort of choices that lead to general chaos over there.
 

Blazin

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Well trading off hunches for the future is a fools game. Trade what is, there is never a point that you have to predict the future to be successful at this. Be open to different possible outcomes don't marry an idea and watch the price action and respond to the weight of the evidence.
 
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