moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 29,284
- 56,856
IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.
- Thread starter Traak
- Start date
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 39,392
- 17,842
My old boss would throw away resumes if java was the first language a candidate listed
- 1
- 17,627
- 8,649
Part of my job requires working with the entirety of the Android repo. Google has been moving more of their code to Kotlin, which if understand correctly is Java with aids.
Our product will invoke multiple jvms to build Android and then invoke many more jvms to run our own Java-based analysis of their Java code. It's gayer than it sounds.
Our product will invoke multiple jvms to build Android and then invoke many more jvms to run our own Java-based analysis of their Java code. It's gayer than it sounds.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 39,392
- 17,842
- 3,070
- 5,012
- 3,070
- 5,012
The whole Android ecosystem is "we're running Linux", but not really, only the Kernel with loads of Java on top. The even got into a fistfight with Oracle for that reason.
At least Apple had the foresight to make the underlying language for their iPhone ecosystem Objective-C and "Objective-C, but a bit more modern" (aka Swift).
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
I have my one coworker on PIP right now. We recently integrated a data governance solution and despite its issues God damn if it isn't absolutely amazing at finding tech debt and janky bullshit made over the years. 90% of jank bullshit was made by this one guy lol. At least stuff that isn't fossilized and is actually being used.
Luckily its all recorded well. It shows a constant pattern. Time after time misunderstanding basic design principles or not even knowing what they are. Instead finding the shortcut to the desired output and implement it.
This is largely ancient databases where source control isn't much of a thing. Just things that exist around the edges of our primary stack, which is all source controlled. Like as an example, this source doesn't have the data type I want, make a table that does and load it with some trigger bullshit then use that rather than identifying the right layer to transform it and do that. Or the one I got him cold on the other week.
Can't figure out how to solve a basic data type problem so he hardcodes 100+ things. I tell him how to do it in a programmatic way and get him half way there. Gets frustrated and goes back to hardcoding it.
Sigh.
Luckily its all recorded well. It shows a constant pattern. Time after time misunderstanding basic design principles or not even knowing what they are. Instead finding the shortcut to the desired output and implement it.
This is largely ancient databases where source control isn't much of a thing. Just things that exist around the edges of our primary stack, which is all source controlled. Like as an example, this source doesn't have the data type I want, make a table that does and load it with some trigger bullshit then use that rather than identifying the right layer to transform it and do that. Or the one I got him cold on the other week.
Can't figure out how to solve a basic data type problem so he hardcodes 100+ things. I tell him how to do it in a programmatic way and get him half way there. Gets frustrated and goes back to hardcoding it.
Sigh.
Last edited:
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
In things that are in source control yes. The problem is that ancient Oracle DBs, MSSQL, and so on don't really have it. There isn't a legacy system really where you build out shit in SQL, store it in git and push to production and it then builds all of those things for you. If you did have that it was the result of forward thinking leadership and it was an in house solution. This is the problem my bae DBT exists to solve.
All of his jank is due to stuff that occurs around the edges in system architecture. Where access and controls are historically very limited. As in anyone can and does do whatever and has for a very very long time. When it comes to system architecture less than half of it really exists in source control or review as you would think of it. This is why network and platform people are big on stuff like Terraform, for example, where your config is all stored as code in git like any other thing. Dealing with all of that bullshit and trying to limit rampant retardation is pretty much
TomServo
's job.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
Pretty sure its because the space originated from DBAs. We use tons of Flywheel to somewhat manage changes. Which I despise. Additionally even something as small as a change in column order could break stuff many layers down. This is healthcare as well and the OG database guys are extraordinarily averse to stuff like that. This carries over into the modern architecture where you don't need to bother with things like data type character limits but they demand that you do because funky stuff in SSIS would break even if that was different in ages past.
flywheel.io
Flywheel Delivers Data Management
Data management and the ability to search across all types of objects enhance the value of the data. Read how Flywheel supports finding and reuse of data.
flywheel.io
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 21,518
- 15,422
I hear ya. Those DBAs are almost definitely full of it and trying their hardest to keep the iron curtain around their little kingdom so they can continue being lazy. But it is what it is, I deal with it in certain areas of my own job as well.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
I'll say it again. The problems AI is going to produce is the hunt for the correct output without understanding basic design principles. Especially in regards to systems working together. Just like the guy I have on PIP is doing. The problems he creates are small though and not tech debt that would cost millions to fix or totally blow up in your face in 5 years.
Take the classic problem of Big O notation. Something you get beat over the head with early in your career and its just assumed you think this way later. With the simplified form of it being "complexity is bad." The AI kids don't even know what that is. They hammer AI until they get the output they were looking for. Commit the code and move on. A graybeard might catch it today, but in 10 years when the entire team is comprised 30 year old AI kids? Gonna be a yikes.
Take the classic problem of Big O notation. Something you get beat over the head with early in your career and its just assumed you think this way later. With the simplified form of it being "complexity is bad." The AI kids don't even know what that is. They hammer AI until they get the output they were looking for. Commit the code and move on. A graybeard might catch it today, but in 10 years when the entire team is comprised 30 year old AI kids? Gonna be a yikes.
- 2
- 1
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 21,518
- 15,422
I don't see a future where it completely takes over to that point, even 10 years down the road, for the exact reasons you already outlined.
What I think is more likely to happen is, it starts to move that way (already is actually), products actually stop functioning, companies start bleeding customers and nobody in said company can fix or correct this. A new and exciting field of consultants and contractors called something innovative like "AI auditors" springs up solely to come unfuck companies like this (or those companies die).
I'm very seriously considering starting one of these "AI auditing" companies. Which is really just a group of developers/engineers that actually understands OOP and can get codebases back into, at the very least, workable states. And charging big bucks for this. But I think we are still a few years out from this being lucrative (and I am certain it will be incredibly lucrative)
What I think is more likely to happen is, it starts to move that way (already is actually), products actually stop functioning, companies start bleeding customers and nobody in said company can fix or correct this. A new and exciting field of consultants and contractors called something innovative like "AI auditors" springs up solely to come unfuck companies like this (or those companies die).
I'm very seriously considering starting one of these "AI auditing" companies. Which is really just a group of developers/engineers that actually understands OOP and can get codebases back into, at the very least, workable states. And charging big bucks for this. But I think we are still a few years out from this being lucrative (and I am certain it will be incredibly lucrative)
- 5
Control
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 5,458
- 15,539
It's gonna be a fantastic Actually Indians plottwist when the AI companies realize there's more money in fixing the problems caused by their AI than selling it and they pivot into the world's largest consulting companies. "fuck it, we don't know, just give us access and tell us what you want, if the AI can't do it, we'll bill you by the hour until the H1B hordes figure it out!, er we meant super-duper thinking mode"
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
Of course this is just my opinion but the job market seems to be quite dire right now. Yes I had two FTE jobs and yes I quit one on purpose. But I casually apply to jobs and respond to recruiters if something sounds interesting. In the past 7 months of this I've gotten to final round and rejected twice. Every other time I was rejected at 2nd round. Now I can be bad at interviews or whatever but its never been a problem before.
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
- 15,427
- 39,211
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 46,442
- 126,849
I never ask for them but I've never received any beyond the boilerplate "other candidates that better fit our needs."
I will also note that the interview process now is more grueling than it's ever been. 4 rounds was the max I would expect in most cases for the past decade. Now for a mid/senior level job there are 5 or 6 rounds.
I will also note that the interview process now is more grueling than it's ever been. 4 rounds was the max I would expect in most cases for the past decade. Now for a mid/senior level job there are 5 or 6 rounds.
Koushirou
Log Wizard
- 5,716
- 15,115
My resume wasn’t exactly the most amazing thing, but still had 10+ years of experience on it and I didn’t even make it to a single interview until this one my brother basically got me and I’d been at least casually tossing around applications since June and blasting them since September to anything remotely related. If I don’t get this, it’s basically off to the mines at this point. There’s a new steel mill down the road hiring!
- 1
- 1
