Big_w_powah
Trakanon Raider
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Kickstarter - Project Phoenix - Indie JRPG
- Thread starter Dandain
- Start date
Ritley
Karazhan Raider
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Ya I backed it at like th $15 or $20 range I think. At this point I'm assuming its vaporware.
Went back and checked, I've backed two games both with summer 2014 expected dates, and both are no where near finished.
Leson learned, no more kick starters for games from me
Went back and checked, I've backed two games both with summer 2014 expected dates, and both are no where near finished.
Leson learned, no more kick starters for games from me
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
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He banned someone (Araysar maybe?) because they were trolling the shit out of him. Tuco overturned the ban and removed Sean's mod powers. Sean then went on an editing spree with thousands of his own posts replacing all content with punctuation marks.
Sean being a high functioning autistic troglodyte should've been sufficient cause to prevent him from ever being considered mod material, but nobody else wanted to manage Other Games. He wasn't the hero we deserved, but he was the hero we needed.
Actually, maybe we did deserve him.
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We're doing just fine without him.
This isn't vaporware (I've seen the builds), but it's severely delayed. If you're a backer, you just got an update explaining why, but suffice it to say that there was some drama involving this project and another project that the creator was involved in. I still don't really understand all of what happened. Looks like creative differences.
This isn't vaporware (I've seen the builds), but it's severely delayed. If you're a backer, you just got an update explaining why, but suffice it to say that there was some drama involving this project and another project that the creator was involved in. I still don't really understand all of what happened. Looks like creative differences.
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When I said severely delayed, I meant it.Today's updateannounced a projected release date of early 2018 for test builds, followed by ~6 months of testing/QA.
Holy shit. This thing will need statute of limitations exemptions if it goes on much longer than that.
Holy shit. This thing will need statute of limitations exemptions if it goes on much longer than that.
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Yeah. I'm trying to reach out to the PR guys to ask if this is being cautiously overstated, but I assume they're asleep at this point (they are located in Japan for the most part). Given that it's been 2 years, and they've had a hard time getting a lead programmer's time thus far, 2018 doesn't sound all that ridiculous if they keep going at this pace.
Hey, at least Uematsu's still writing music for them! Or something.
Oh, and <insert Duke Nukem Forever / Prey joke here>.
Hey, at least Uematsu's still writing music for them! Or something.
Oh, and <insert Duke Nukem Forever / Prey joke here>.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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This is why Kickstarter needs an automatic refund and lawsuit option for failed projects, which this by any reasonable definition should be defined as.
Your single programmer has another project getting in the way? Then you should have thought about that before starting a million dollar kickstarter that will utilize that person, and have another programmer on deck as backup.
No one will say a fucking word though, even though the kickstarter page says the person running the project refuses to consider refunds since it will kill the project. Excuse me? The project is killed already.
I didn't back this one, but if I had I'd be fucking pissed.
Your single programmer has another project getting in the way? Then you should have thought about that before starting a million dollar kickstarter that will utilize that person, and have another programmer on deck as backup.
No one will say a fucking word though, even though the kickstarter page says the person running the project refuses to consider refunds since it will kill the project. Excuse me? The project is killed already.
I didn't back this one, but if I had I'd be fucking pissed.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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There is a risk involved with Kickstarter. You're not buying a product, you're giving money to a startup/business. I don't agree with suing or refunds. Do your due diligence and if not getting anything back for your 50 bucks is unacceptable, don't give anyone on Kickstarter money.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Meanwhile, Kickstarter makes a cut of every project, whether it can be completed or not, and they bear no responsibility or liability if a project isn't completed.
I've back several things, and will in the future, but shit like this really highlights why that system is profoundly flawed, and basically any scammer can go in with a good looking proposal, and walk away with a fat bank account, with no intention of ever delivering.
Governments will regulate that shit at some point. Its inevitable. Its in Kickstarter's best interests to cut that shit off at the pass by self regulating before the Feds get their hands in the pool.
I've back several things, and will in the future, but shit like this really highlights why that system is profoundly flawed, and basically any scammer can go in with a good looking proposal, and walk away with a fat bank account, with no intention of ever delivering.
Governments will regulate that shit at some point. Its inevitable. Its in Kickstarter's best interests to cut that shit off at the pass by self regulating before the Feds get their hands in the pool.
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I'm not exactly happy with the delay, but I am somewhat involved behind the scenes, so I'm not going to bitch about it in public. Suffice it to say that they are doing their best. I'm just glad my name isn't on the staff page. I don't want it there at this point. I agree with their stance on refunds, though; if they start refunding everyone's money, there will be no game, period. If it comes to that, fine, but until we've reached that point, they need to stay the course.
As a friend of mine just put it: "After all the delays, if this game isn't the second coming of Christ, people will riot".
As a friend of mine just put it: "After all the delays, if this game isn't the second coming of Christ, people will riot".
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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yeah, Ive certainly been loud about calling Kickstarter a scam, and kickstarters policies itself bullshit, even the rules they DO have, they ignore when they feel like it.
My issue is largely on the marketing, and KS ignoring its own poorly written policies.
Kickstarters are donations. yeah, no refunds. expecting them is dumb. often there is no money to return. you pay artists, etc, and can still fail. where does that money come from to refund?
1. people need to be made well aware thats its a donation. and there is a risk with every project it will never be fulfilled.
2. Media needs to be a fuckload more critical about kickstarters. Not playing favorites with promotion. (we all know how that has been going..)
3. normal people sadly can't be that well informed, and do the due diligence. partially due to media promoting, lying and doing coverups. and partially since no one has the kind of time to really do background exposays to find out who is who on the internet. that is the media's job. its like all the people claiming to be ex-Blizzard people, that gave us PoE, Torchlight, etc, etc. ok, great. but who is REALLY responsible for D2? Same with Ultima, etc. Every Kickstarter says it has alumni from some great game. (check that systemshock 3/ultima underworld thread for example) But who are these people and what REALLY was their input on each of these games? who the fuck knows?
For reference, I was personally the reason for the delay in ours for a similar reason as this one.
I was juggling work. And my other jobs workload increased dramatically over the year.
Book went out in June 2015. Est. delivery was dec 2014.
OH, HELL an Original Graphic Novel by George Wassil Kickstarter
If I had say, I would have likely not used KS itself. its a larger market, but I trust indiegogo a bit more. And do like Patreon. that is more the creators themselves abusing it. far too many set up $/month, instead of $/upload. I went through just a month ago and cleaned out like 3 creators I was funding who were on $/month plans, and have been on haitus for 4-6months, getting paid, and not having produced anything at all. which is THAT systems problem. people set up funding/subscription, and then forget it.
My issue is largely on the marketing, and KS ignoring its own poorly written policies.
Kickstarters are donations. yeah, no refunds. expecting them is dumb. often there is no money to return. you pay artists, etc, and can still fail. where does that money come from to refund?
1. people need to be made well aware thats its a donation. and there is a risk with every project it will never be fulfilled.
2. Media needs to be a fuckload more critical about kickstarters. Not playing favorites with promotion. (we all know how that has been going..)
3. normal people sadly can't be that well informed, and do the due diligence. partially due to media promoting, lying and doing coverups. and partially since no one has the kind of time to really do background exposays to find out who is who on the internet. that is the media's job. its like all the people claiming to be ex-Blizzard people, that gave us PoE, Torchlight, etc, etc. ok, great. but who is REALLY responsible for D2? Same with Ultima, etc. Every Kickstarter says it has alumni from some great game. (check that systemshock 3/ultima underworld thread for example) But who are these people and what REALLY was their input on each of these games? who the fuck knows?
For reference, I was personally the reason for the delay in ours for a similar reason as this one.
I was juggling work. And my other jobs workload increased dramatically over the year.
Book went out in June 2015. Est. delivery was dec 2014.
OH, HELL an Original Graphic Novel by George Wassil Kickstarter
If I had say, I would have likely not used KS itself. its a larger market, but I trust indiegogo a bit more. And do like Patreon. that is more the creators themselves abusing it. far too many set up $/month, instead of $/upload. I went through just a month ago and cleaned out like 3 creators I was funding who were on $/month plans, and have been on haitus for 4-6months, getting paid, and not having produced anything at all. which is THAT systems problem. people set up funding/subscription, and then forget it.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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I think Kickstarter should be responsible for paying back refunds, actually. Then they can pursue their losses with the kickstarter project team who failed to deliver.
That would put the onus on Kickstarter to self police the projects that are on their site, and would resolve pretty much all the problems.
Its their idea, their website, they profit off every project, why shouldn't they be responsible for policing that shit, and hit in the wallets when a project that they've allowed to go forward fails?
That would put the onus on Kickstarter to self police the projects that are on their site, and would resolve pretty much all the problems.
Its their idea, their website, they profit off every project, why shouldn't they be responsible for policing that shit, and hit in the wallets when a project that they've allowed to go forward fails?
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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The only reason they'd go bankrupt is if they let projects which had no chance of success go up there.
I mean I don't disagree with you, though. You're right, its pretty impossible to police venture capitalism, but then again, this isn't really venture capitalism. Its donation capitalism.
I mean I don't disagree with you, though. You're right, its pretty impossible to police venture capitalism, but then again, this isn't really venture capitalism. Its donation capitalism.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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A good start would be a project that has only one confirmed programmer, who is already apparently under contract on another job and has no way to get out of it until long after the initial planned release date for the title has passed, very well might be defined as a project that will have a difficult time meeting its promised goals.
There's been some pretty obvious flops too, like that board game that actually did get I think Washington State to go after it as a scam.
Game over: FTC goes after board game campaign gone wrong in first crowdfunding case - The Washington Post
There should be some demonstration of ability to deliver the product, by having fully fleshed out business plans accounting for where the funding will go, and a reasonable time line to project completion, willingness to sign guarantee to complete contracts with Kickstarter proper if the project reaches or exceeds its funding goals, etc.
Its doable, it would just be much more stringent than it is currently, and that's why they won't do it because
1. It keeps Kickstarter from making mad bank regardless if a project finishes or not
2. It would restrict at least some access for some up and coming artists who might otherwise use the platform to achieve their goals.
But end of the day, the consumer/people donating should be the priority for protection, not corporations or product makers. That's my personal opinion at least.
There's been some pretty obvious flops too, like that board game that actually did get I think Washington State to go after it as a scam.
Game over: FTC goes after board game campaign gone wrong in first crowdfunding case - The Washington Post
There should be some demonstration of ability to deliver the product, by having fully fleshed out business plans accounting for where the funding will go, and a reasonable time line to project completion, willingness to sign guarantee to complete contracts with Kickstarter proper if the project reaches or exceeds its funding goals, etc.
Its doable, it would just be much more stringent than it is currently, and that's why they won't do it because
1. It keeps Kickstarter from making mad bank regardless if a project finishes or not
2. It would restrict at least some access for some up and coming artists who might otherwise use the platform to achieve their goals.
But end of the day, the consumer/people donating should be the priority for protection, not corporations or product makers. That's my personal opinion at least.
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So, without going into too many details, after I'd warned them for years about their site being hopelessly outdated and full of vulnerabilities, someone went to town on it earlier this year. I don't think there's a single usable php file left. It's all been replaced by whatever this script kiddie ran.
It's pretty telling when I submitted a project plan years ago to bring this shit up to date and was told no, because it would cost a small amount of money.
Oh, and I'll just leave this here. Indie game Tiny Metal can't escape the shadow of a massive Kickstarter failure
It's pretty telling when I submitted a project plan years ago to bring this shit up to date and was told no, because it would cost a small amount of money.
Oh, and I'll just leave this here. Indie game Tiny Metal can't escape the shadow of a massive Kickstarter failure