Ladysmith Black Mambazo School of Music

TomServo

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Fuck off attention whore. Let this be an object lesson of what happens when someone gives you any ground.

And yeah I was a music major with intentions of being a band director educator at one point. At my peak I was constantly composing and arranging for groups, as well as playing over a dozen instruments (two to a very high level) and singing at a top level. These days I do a limited version of that for the kraut club and still do first tenor for them. If you really want to be humiliated by me, please keep going down this path especially when I am backing your argument. I am sure that will work out great for you.
A dozen instruments huh? Prince you are not.
 

AladainAF

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Jesus Christ. All this talk about "music these days" reads like a giant thread of message written by my fucking grandparents. Get over yourselves, boomers - holy fuck. There is plenty of good music out there.

I'd argue the only genres really suffering right now are probably rock music and country. Both are trying way too hard to incorporate "pop" elements and they are worse off for it. There have been a few standout albums, but they're becoming more and more rare.

People bitching about hip-hop being total shit are a bunch of fucking white-breads who never liked the genre in the first place. People like Joyner Lucas and Kendrick Lamar are talented as shit - their bars are ridiculous. Kendrick's "good kid, m.A.A.d city" is probably the best rap album in the last 15-20 years. Lil Wayne's last album was great and the production value for his "Mona Lisa" song is some of the best shit I've heard since probably Dre's 2001 album.

Music is absolutely worse these days, there's even science to prove it. The lyrics are becoming more dumbed down, the dynamic ranges are compressed into just all being loud for every single instrument, and of course music these days is full of such repetitive garbage so much so that pieces of it even have their own name -- and it's like this because the brain likes things its used to. Such as hearing gundam style the first time and thinking "what the fuck is this garbage" but after the 50th time you're like "eh this isnt bad". We won't even discuss that like two fucking people write the lyrics for over half the shit played on the radio.

It's music that sucks so bad that it needs repetitive shit to trick your brain to think its a good song, when a real true good song sounds great the first fucking time you listen to it.

 

lurkingdirk

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Your contention is that blacks invented jazz, blues, and gospel music whole cloth without any prior influences? The magic dirt just taught them how to blow a horn and do four part harmony?

Or are you saying that modern black music is equal or superior to all prior forms of music?

I just want to know which ridiculous argument you want to make here, LD.

The slaves in America had mountains of call and response music they did, and yes, they did develop their own harmony. Every single civilization on this planet developed harmony around the perfect fifth, every one without exception. Splitting from the fifth was pretty simple, originally with pentatonic harmonies, as they work so easily. Working in repetitive formats, such as the 12 bar blues, also came quite naturally. Were the slaves influenced by Western music? Of course they were. Did they take that and create something unique that has had a huge impact on popular music since? Yes.

The tradition grew from the experiences of the blacks in America. Certainly church music had an impact. But to say they had no impact on popular music is simply absurd.
 

Kirun

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I personally rate Rise and Fall above Days go By, but that I agree is a matter of taste.

And my point is that, no music (from a mechanical standpoint) is not that different from 20-30 years ago. There is more digital aspects to all of it (I am old enough to remember Quadrophonic being a failed fad), but its the same recycled shit. Nu Metal is sort of unique, but its not that far removed from Grunge. Hip hop is still overproduced dick waving by wakandans and flash in the pan teen idols. If anything, the field has actually narrowed quite a bit. And its not like this is the only shit decade of music. Every odd decade since the 50s has had a couple dominant shit genre's that have been forgotten completely (only to come back 20 years later). In the 50s you had some really cringe worthy overproduced pop music (Neil Sedaka being the worst offender) and some truely hideous novelty shit. In the 70s you had Disco and I don't think I have to explain that anymore. The 90s was the produced pop and rap explosion that it took Grunge to finally get out of. Honestly, next to the current decade, I think the 90s was the worst decade of modern music due to the complete lack of variety. For every fucking Radio Head or NIN, there were dozens of CnC Music Factory rip offs flooding the airwaves with total shit.

But where today is there a creation like Ok Computer? Downward Spiral? Full Moon Fever? Melon Collie Infinite Sadness? Ten? Hell where is anything like SNZ's Inevitable now adays? I cannot name a single album by anyone from the last decade (that wasn't put out by an older/long running act) that I enjoyed as a cover to cover experience like any of those, outside of maybe Wolfmother. There is no creative effort behind it, just fucking retreads worse than the movie industry.
There is absolutely more of a "digitizing" sound to music nowadays, sure. And there's a shitload of trash out there when every Tom, Dick, and Harry can throw their shit onto Spotify. That doesn't change the fact that there's still plenty of great music being made, even if it has a "new" sound. People thought Jimmy plugging in an electric guitar was fucking horrible and taking away from the "art" as well - didn't stop it from transforming music.

Hip hop has always been dominated by relatively few artists and a whole shitload of trash. You had Snoop, Dre, Tupac, and Ice Cube who dominated most of the 90s and early 2000s. But you also had "chart topping" shit that the masses loved that I personally found horrible, like Eminem. It's not much different than now. You have great lyricists like Kendrick, Logic, and Joyner Lucas, but "chart topping" trash coming from people like Drake, J. Cole, etc. Again, there's still great music being put out, it's just not your thing and that's ok.

Wasting Light is easily Foo Fighters' best album since The Colour and the Shape and that came out 10 years ago. In fact, it's easily a top 5 rock album of the last decade. Chevelle put out "La Gargola" and "Hats Off To The Bull" in the past decade, both some of their best work since "Wonder What's Next". Manson's "The Pale Emperor" is his best stuff since "The Golden Age of Grotesque", especially the songs "Deep Six", "Third Day of a Seven Day Binge" and "The Mephistopheles of Los Angeles". "Like Clockwork" from QotSA is some of their best stuff and that was 2013. People have already mentioned Greta Van Fleet's "From the Fires", which might be the best rock album of the past 5 years. There's plenty of stuff out there man, it just isn't "on the radio" because nobody consumes music that way anymore.

Shit like Ten, Superunknown, Dirt, etc. became "classics" because the only way to fucking consume music back then was flipping the dial and occasionally hearing something playing at a friend's house you hadn't heard on the radio yet. So, EVERYBODY eventually heard them because your options were so limited. Nowadays you have iTunes, YouTube, Spotify, SoundCloud, etc. It's overwhelming at times how much goddamn music there is and you definitely have to separate the wheat from the chaffe. But, "music nowadays sucks!!" is 100% some boomer shit that sounds like echoes of my father and his father before him.
 
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kinadin

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I have multiple graduate degrees in music history and theory. Not a thing he's said about black music has been accurate. Just ignore it.
Monkey Lol GIF by Parker Jackson
 

Phazael

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A dozen instruments huh? Prince you are not.
No he was an actual talented black musician.

But the reality is once you master an instrument, its pretty easy to be competent at the variants. If you can play a double reed instrument, you can pretty much do well with any reed based woodwind (flute is another animal). Brass instruments, if you can play one well then only French Horn presents a challenge. Percussion, well trap set and xylophone require different skills, but pretty much everything else is easy (I did a year as a Tympany specialist in college because I could tune on the fly really well for certain pieces, namely the Planets which we did five movements of). Guitar and Keys are where I am weak because I never bothered to pick them up (parents had a cover band so my way of rebelling was to get into horns and classical music). Voice I have always been good to really good at, but if you have a good ear and range its easy to sing any mens parts in formal chorus or other groups (did some time as a background voice for a 50s revival group and similar gigs here and there for fun, plus a shit ton of barbershop).

Reason I have gone so far the rabbit hole on this derail is I get triggered every time some ego driven black pop star dares to put themselves on the same level as someone with real talent, like Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, MJ to name black musical masters specifically. Most modern music is shit, but black music especially has basically gone full on ghetto garbage since Disco shit all over the music scene. Honestly, Living Color might be the only black music group I have liked at all in the last 30 years and they were fairly short lived because they were so far against the mold.
 
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Caeden

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Man, Prince was fucking talented. Probably a degenerate, but the guy was a talented musician.
 
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Vanessa

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Your contention is that blacks invented jazz, blues, and gospel music whole cloth without any prior influences? The magic dirt just taught them how to blow a horn and do four part harmony?

Or are you saying that modern black music is equal or superior to all prior forms of music?

I just want to know which ridiculous argument you want to make here, LD.
Focus Fleischberg. Don't go to the little guy.... come to me. Tell me about Gustoff.

Tell me about the part in Mars when the 5/4 G ostinato part breaks free up to its natural resolution to C in the bass. What chord did Holst implement on that part? Share with us. Google can't help you now.
 

Phazael

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Shit like Ten, Superunknown, Dirt, etc. became "classics" because the only way to fucking consume music back then was flipping the dial and occasionally hearing something playing at a friend's house you hadn't heard on the radio yet. So, EVERYBODY eventually heard them because your options were so limited. Nowadays you have iTunes, YouTube, Spotify, SoundCloud, etc. It's overwhelming at times how much goddamn music there is and you definitely have to separate the wheat from the chaffe. But, "music nowadays sucks!!" is 100% some boomer shit that sounds like echoes of my father and his father before him.
No one alive is going to defend Disco or MC Hammer style rap. Not even black people. I agree with a lot of your points but a lot of the good music you cite is by groups that have been around a long ass time. There is no new blow the doors off people groups coming out today revolutionizing things, despite all this access to the music. The closest ones I can come up with are Clutch who have been idle a while and maybe Wolfmother.
 

Phazael

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Focus Fleischberg. Don't go to the little guy.... come to me. Tell me about Gustoff.

Tell me about the part in Mars when the 5/4 G ostinato part breaks free up to its natural resolution to C in the bass. What chord did Holst implement on that part? Share with us. Google can't help you now.
Not to take the bait, but Mars is arguably the most boring movement. Saturn is my favorite because of the ethereal style of it being unique, especially for the era it was composed.

But if you want to talk Mars, the part with the third motiff (starts in the Euphonium and French Horns) transitioning back into the second motiff (the legoto string part) and finally back into the main motiff is my favorite part of that piece, but I am a sucker for modulations in music (main reason I love Barbershop music so much as well).
 

Chanur

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Exactly. I don't listen to any music after 1999. It's not music, its just computer, algorithmic generated bs with crappy lyrics. I watched a documentary of a dude showing that, with the advent of some music software in the early aughts, all commercial music these days pretty much uses some computer formula that doesn't allow deviation or improvisation.

When people mention a current singer or band, I legit have no idea who they are. I used to listen to the oldies station here, but they actually stopped playing real oldies and now just play 80's and 90's stuff. I like that music, but there were already 2 stations that play classic rock versus oldies so now I just download to or stream music from my phone. I hate commercials anyway.
 
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SeanDoe1z1

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The slaves in America had mountains of call and response music they did, and yes, they did develop their own harmony. Every single civilization on this planet developed harmony around the perfect fifth, every one without exception. Splitting from the fifth was pretty simple, originally with pentatonic harmonies, as they work so easily. Working in repetitive formats, such as the 12 bar blues, also came quite naturally. Were the slaves influenced by Western music? Of course they were. Did they take that and create something unique that has had a huge impact on popular music since? Yes.

The tradition grew from the experiences of the blacks in America. Certainly church music had an impact. But to say they had no impact on popular music is simply absurd.
Listen here fat

did blacks invent ff7 septhiroth final battle scene or no

How do I pdf
 

Vanessa

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Not to take the bait
Just did. Ooop~

but Mars is arguably the most boring movement.
Literally the most active movement next to Jupiter perhaps. But yes, it's "boring". Unreal.

Saturn is my favorite because of the ethereal style of it being unique, especially for the era it was composed.
Oppressive perhaps but Neptune is ethereal and for the ERA it was composed, had an ingenious ending to it. Tell me about that ending. Go.

But if you want to talk Mars, the part with the third motiff (starts in the Euphonium and French Horns) transitioning back into the second motiff (the legoto string part) and finally back into the main motiff is my favorite part of that piece, but I am a sucker for modulations in music (main reason I love Barbershop music so much as well).
...and you know... considering there aren't Euphoniums implemented in the symphony at all I'm genuinely curious how you will wriggle your way out of this bullshit. Go ahead.
 

Chukzombi

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Yeah, I remember my dad bitching and saying, "This shit fucking sucks.." when I put in my Ten and Superunknown cassettes. And he remembers his dad yelling at him to "turn that shit down!!" when he threw on Van Halen and Led Zeppelin.

You have become your parents. That's fine, just recognize it for what it is.
heh, my dad liked my music. he even liked White Zombie. I never got the dad talk about "in my day...". i know you like your music, i'm glad for you, but many people think its forgettable trash. in 5 years nobody will even remember those songs. meanwhile you got Michael Jackson songs from 40 years ago on the radio still being played in regular rotation.
 

Vanessa

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If you really want to be humiliated by me, please keep going down this path
I'm still going down this path... you're losing it right now... i.e. morendo keep up Fleischberg... get more vivace in your humiliation.
 

Phazael

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@Manessa
Asians had a five note scale until they did what asians do, namely copy what the round eyes did and made vast technical improvements on it, particularly when it comes to orchestration.

And yes, Mars IS the most boring piece from the standpoint of being a musician performing it. Three motiffs in the whole piece on a fairly continuous loop. Fun to play and listen to? Sure. But not challenging or mentally stimulating unless your idea of a great peace is breaking the bell on brass instruments in 5/4 time for half a piece. I say this as someone who has performed five parts of the Planets with orchestras twice (once as a euphonium player and once as a tympani player). Jupiter is definitely good, too will grant you. Saturn is what grabbed me due to its unique chord structures and dynamics. Plus, lets face it, Mars has been done to death and influenced a shitload of similar works.

But none of this addresses the core argument that blacks really have not contributed squat to music, outside of maybe Mowtown and early vocal jazz numbers of the 40s and 50s (which were also some of the first racially integrated music groups like the Del Vikings as one example). They have managed to blight us with the two worst genres of music ever, Disco and Rap.
 

Kirun

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No one alive is going to defend Disco or MC Hammer style rap. Not even black people. I agree with a lot of your points but a lot of the good music you cite is by groups that have been around a long ass time. There is no new blow the doors off people groups coming out today revolutionizing things, despite all this access to the music. The closest ones I can come up with are Clutch who have been idle a while and maybe Wolfmother.
Eh, what genre are we talking about? And how far back do you want to go? Because Kendrick absolutely blew the doors off of a dying rap/hip-hop scene when he released good kid, m.A.A.d city. Granted, that was 2012, but Dre had turned into more of a mogul/producer, Snoop was hanging with Willy Nelson and Martha Stewart, and Ice Cube was doing "family man" movies. The genre was in rough shape for around a good decade or so. The reason you're seeing so much of that "thug shit" now is because he massively helped revive the genre. So, of course you're going to see a bunch of shitty rappers trying to get in on the "gold rush".

Like I said, country and rock are about the only genres still mostly dominated by "old-school" bands/artists. And while there have been a few breakouts like Greta Van Fleet, they mostly broke through on "old" sound. But, rock went through a similar decade in the 80s where the sound wasn't really changing and it was mostly dominated by bands that had already "made it".

Amod Amod Can we break this discussion off into another thread? I'd like to continue it, but this derail has gone on long enough.