League Of Legends

You could always play Tryn every game and AFK farm top until you reach their nexus. Once you're big enough that no one can 1v1 you, you've essentially won the game unless your team fails to take advantage of the immense pressure you're putting on the enemy team.

Whatever you do, I recommend focusing on just a few champions. If you're good on a few champions that's much better for your elo (division, mmr, whatever, fuck you Riot) than being mediocre on a bunch.

I find that Lulu is a good supp. She has a lot of control because she can polymorph (maxes at 2 seconds) - this can stop plays or take an ADC out of the fight for the duration, has slow that hits in a line, her E has vision reveal and her R can save people that dive at bad times. Elise can be a good play maker, and she can fill in almost any roll minus ADC. Try playing more assassin type characters that can carry harder, Zed and Kassadin both can go straight for the enemy back line and insta gib an ADC.

I just got out of bronze, Silver V now, playing almost exclusively supp, keeping the ADC alive and making sure the enemy one doesn't get snowballed really helps your team. It sucks only buying wards, oracles and mobility boots, but in that low of bracket people just walk blindly around the map and that accounts for most deaths in late game. So keeping bushes warded really helps stop derps on the team.

Gilgamel_sl said:

Need some advice.

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I would recommend not buying lifesteal runes. They are really only good on some ADCs and specific junglers. If you are looking to carry harder from top on someone like Trynd than go with the +15 damage flat AD Quints/Marks setup. Your trades are bigger, your last hitting is smoother, and it's much easier to snowball on the early power. For AP runes the big ones to have are flat AP Quints and either Hybrid Marks or MPen Marks. Hybrids are pricey but you can use them on tons of people. I last hit like complete and total garbage so I use them all the time for a little extra help.

I run lifesteal on all of my ADCs. Never run full AD unless I am laning with a Sona Nami or Raka.

Nasus top runs lifesteal quints a lot of the time too.

Ninety percent of the ad melee tops run life steal quints now. Tryndamere doesn't run any AD actually if you look at high mmr players that play him consistently and well. Its Life steal quints and attack speed reds for him.

Yeah, I don't actually believe that everyone now runes lifesteal on ad melee top lane.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Yeah, I don't actually believe that everyone now runes lifesteal on ad melee top lane.

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Well then you'd be wrong. Its the most bang for your buck and the best for trading against another melee or sustaining against a ranged that can free harass you. AD reds and LS quints for most people. If you are running flat ad and your opponent is running life steal then you pretty much lose trades automatically unless one of you just straight out skills the other. You may do slightly more damage in the trade (champ dependent) but they constantly regen just from creeping while you're relying on whatever regen items you brought to lane. I don't know if you watch OGN but they show the runes and masteries that each player is running before the match and anyone that isn't ap or ranged with some native sustain is running the LS quint/AD Red combo's in patches 3.9 and 3.10.

edit: The only exception to this is if you are attempting to level 2-3 cheese your opponent on a champ like Riven/Rengar/TigerUdyr. Then yes you would run AD reds and quints along with a red pot start to get the most burst you can.

Also, to back up what Vimeseh is saying...there is a website called probuilds.net that pulls only pros/challenger tier (mainly pros or really well know challenger players or former LCS players) rune pages/mastery pages/skill leveling order/item buying order (even down to if they bought it at the same time or went back multiple times, etc). You can search by pros names or by a champ and if you look at voyboy/zionspartan they are both running AS red with LS quints. You will absolutely see some ad one sprinkled in there, won't deny that.

I flat out do not believe that everyone runes lifesteal and AD melee top lanes. I just don't. AS/LS is the fotm on Trynd right now? Fine. But you can take that 90% hyperbole and shove it.

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1060898095/44989306

It's not 90% hyperbole.

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1060878646/44989306
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1055218020/44989306
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1055332252/44989306

And now for balls:

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1019384449/44989299
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1019167538/44989299
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/999832307/44989299

Sycho Sid:

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/997020481/44979347

I searched for these players and chose games where they played a physical damage character at random to see what showed up and discovered that they do seem to like their lifesteal quints. I watched a lot of Voyboy's stream and he said it depended a lot on the matchup how many he would take, but I only remember one game where he took 0. Feel free to continue believing whatever you want regardless of the facts present, though.

Aatrox:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1026747160/19458355
Aatrox:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1045786671/19738326
Jax:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1055254196/44989306
Jax:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/766966003/3152944
Jax:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1046159134/19738326
Zed:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1041714734/18995872
WuKong:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/877931594/21622356
Irelia:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1053682628/19132539

All either LCS/OGN pros or diamond 1 -- challenger players. As I said before Riven/Rengar/Lee sin buck this trend because they rely on cheesy level 2-3 all ins to win their lanes. If you want to farm or a play a more standard lane then its pretty much life steal. But you can continue saying I don't believe you in the same way that you argued five to ten game representation in the lcs wasn't a large play sample in the argument about how much variety/champion viability was at the pro level.

I'm sorry what? Did you even look at what you fucking linked?

1. Voy's Lee Sin with a single lifesteal quint
2. Another Voy Lee Sin with a single lifesteal quint
3. Voyboy as Irelia, lifesteal quints make sense on her
4. Voyboy game as Ezreal. Ezreal is not an AD Melee
5. Balls on Jayce with two quints. Jayce is not a melee AD.
6. Balls on Ezreal. Ezreal is not a melee AD. Two quints.
7. Balls on Ezreal again. Two quints. Not a melee AD.
8. Sid on Jayce. Two quints. Not a melee AD.

Take your shit the fuck out of here.

edit -

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:

But you can continue saying I don't believe you in the same way that you argued five to ten game representation in the lcs wasn't a large play sample in the argument about how much variety/champion viability was at the pro level.

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Oh, is that what I said? I'm pretty sure I said that champions that only see a single game and/or champions that have zero wins don't say anything positive about champion representation.

Arbitrary_sl said:

I'm sorry what? Did you even look at what you fucking linked?

1. Voy's Lee Sin with a single lifesteal quint
2. Another Voy Lee Sin with a single lifesteal quint
3. Voyboy as Irelia, lifesteal quints make sense on her
4. Voyboy game as Ezreal. Ezreal is not an AD Melee
5. Balls on Jayce with two quints. Jayce is not a melee AD.
6. Balls on Ezreal. Ezreal is not a melee AD. Two quints.
7. Balls on Ezreal again. Two quints. Not a melee AD.
8. Sid on Jayce. Two quints. Not a melee AD.

Take your shit the fuck out of here.

edit -



Oh, is that what I said? I'm pretty sure I said that champions that only see a single game and/or champions that have zero wins don't say anything positive about champion representation.

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Regardless of the exact number you stated given a ten champions picked per game pool over the relatively small amount of lcs games played a single appearance or a few appearences with no wins (which might not be the champs fault anyway) are statistically significant given the numbers involved. This was pointed out to you and the other person that was arguing this bad point by a couple people.

Anwyay. I gave you different melee ADs played by different people who are seemingly being played with the LS/AD setup. One of them did have one AD quint involved though so I guess that invalidates the whole point that on the whole Life steal seems to be preferred. Also what runes someone should buy if they don't have a ton of IP for top... LS or AD. Pro's and high mmrs seem to really like LS on non cheese tops.

Funny, because your first post stated how lifesteal was bad on everyone except, "some ADCs and junglers", yet it seems that for most champions top lane people run either lifesteal quints or a combination of lifesteal/_ to suit their needs. I guess the rest of us are just all hallucinating the lifesteal together. /shrug

Hey, let's play the confirmation bias data mining game!

Dyrus almost never, ever uses lifesteal quints on anyone and he never uses them on Renekton whom he plays top lane constantly. Balls never, ever uses lifesteal runes on top Kha'Zix or top Nocturne or Renekton either. Voy doesn't run them on Udyr. Voy doesn't use them on Zed. Cruiser doesn't use them on Zed.

Alright then. So that's Renekton, Zed, Udyr, Kha'Zix, Nocturne, and you said Rengar and Riven too. You just go ahead and name 72 other melee AD types that for sure use lifesteal quints to get up to that definitely not hyperbole 90%

edit - Sure, they are more common then I thought they were. So what? I'm not the one defending a 90% claim and linking Ezreal and Jayce to support it.

edit edit - what I said was

Arbitrary_sl said:

I would recommend not buying lifesteal runes. They are really only good on some ADCs and specific junglers.

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Links to games with Jax (who sucks), Irelia (who sucks), and Aatrox who is primarily a jungler in competitive play I don't find convincing evidence.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Hey, let's play the confirmation bias data mining game!

Dyrus almost never, ever uses lifesteal quints on anyone and he never uses them on Renekton whom he plays top lane constantly. Balls never, ever uses lifesteal runes on top Kha'Zix or top Nocturne or Renekton either. Voy doesn't run them on Udyr. Voy doesn't use them on Zed. Cruiser doesn't use them on Zed.

Alright then. So that's Renekton, Zed, Udyr, Kha'Zix, Nocturne, and you said Rengar and Riven too. You just go ahead and name 72 other melee AD types that for sure use lifesteal quints to get up to that definitely not hyperbole 90%

edit - Sure, they are more common then I thought they were. So what? I'm not the one defending a 90% claim and linking Ezreal and Jayce to support it.

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I wasn't aware that nocturne was now considered a viable top. Thanks for the heads up. Should we throw Skarner in there too because he punches people? I linked a Zed that went LS so that's a wash. Udyr going at least 2 of 3:http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1028820389/18995872. Kha'zix does indeed belong in the stacking ad club.

As far as Dyrus and Renekton goes. The croc is more accurately described as an ad caster like pantheon or talon in that his he relies on his abilities primarily for damage and his right click or melee is actually pretty weak. However I'll cede the point because I don't feel like arguing the minutiae of every champion that goes top often. Regarding Dyrus? Dude pretty much only plays AP these days in any serious fashion with Ren as his only serious AD based champ. So seeing life steal quints on his favored champs would be rare I would think. He however did put LS on Nasus when he played him last.

edit: Just noticed your edit about Jax and Irelia who apparently suck. Even though Jax has a high win rate in OGN and Irelia has started seeing play in EU/Korea because of the trinity force changes. Aatrox has also seen heavy top lane play From Darian, Kerp, and Kubon in EU with Kiwikid playing it top multiple times in NA.

Wait, you linked one Zed game so that is equal to three pros that never use lifesteal on Zed? And Jax is somehow this worthy top lane champion to cite but Nocturne isn't good enough? And Renekton doesn't count because he's an AD caster even though we both know that's a subset of the broader category of AD melee? And Dyrus really mostly plays AP so he doesn't really count even though he's a top laner on a pro team that just doesn't use the things all that often and you love citing top rated players?

I wasn't aware that the current Trynd flavor was attack speed marks and lifesteal quints. That's on me. But for you to slap down that 90% and then stand behind it and try and data mine to prove it to be true is on you.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Wait, you linked one Zed game so that is equal to three pros that never use lifesteal on Zed? And Jax is somehow this worthy top lane champion to cite but Nocturne isn't good enough? And Renekton doesn't count because he's an AD caster even though we both know that's a subset of the broader category of AD melee? And Dyrus really mostly plays AP so he doesn't really count even though he's a top laner on a pro team that just doesn't use the things all that often and you love citing top rated players?

I wasn't aware that the current Trynd flavor was attack speed marks and lifesteal quints. That's on me. But for you to slap down that 90% and then stand behind it and try and data mine to prove it to be true is on you.

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1.) Pretty sure I can find more Zeds that run LS. Didn't think I needed to provide a dozen links per champ considering you aren't providing any.

2.) Jax gets played top in the most competitive pro scene in the world and has a positive winrate. Nocturne has never seen top play at the pro level and goes top almost never anywhere else.

3.) AD caster's actually could never melee and you wouldn't notice an appreciable loss in damage. While broadly yes they are melee in the sense that they don't have a ranged auto attack their melee attacks are pretty much ignored when it comes to building and playing them. So no I don't consider them to be pure melee ADs in the same way that Tryn, Aatrox, Jax, Irelia, Nasus, etc would be. You know champs that actually melee for large portions of damage and focus on it in their kit. Champs that utilize life steal very well ironically.

4.) The same way I wouldn't go to Voyboy or Flame when I want Renekton or Vlad tips, I wouldn't go to Dyrus for Tryndamere or Jax tips. He doesn't play the champs with any regularity, so while yes he is an obviously skilled player I would rather take the builds from similarly skilled players who actually play the relevant champs that I am looking to improve with.

Alright, so about this claim that 90% of the AD melee champions use lifesteal quints.

They don't. You were wrong to claim that. Data mining whatever it is you think proves that to be so while ignoring all of the other cases is called you confirming your bias. Making it out like you just slot up lifesteal quints top "because pros" isn't doing yourself or anyone else any favors.