Mad Men

Did they ever mention what the new agency name is going to be?

Not yet, don't think so. Unless it was mentioned very briefly in passing and I missed it, but I only recall them saying something along the lines of 'whatever are we going to call ourselves?' so far.

Anyone confused by the weird Don hotel scenes with Sylvia, have you never heard of S&M? Don is obviously addicted to power, and right when he thinks he is losing most of his power at work, she submits to him in private so he retreats into that dream world for a couple days.

She enjoys being submissive and controlled, his display of power and dominance turning her on. Hence, why she starts playing with herself when the phone is ringing after he calls her and commands her not to answer the phone again.

The actual scenes were borderline awkward, but so would watching any couples fetish if it's not your thing. However, I thought all of those scenes made perfect sense, it was almost as if they hammered us over the head with it. He comes back late, gets scolded by Ted about missing the whole meeting, then immediately calls her at the room to issue commands.

For me it made little sense considering what came before it.

His mistress' marriage is on the verge of explosion, which in extra-marital affair code means 'time to thread very carefully', because balance in repercussions for secret breaking is suddenly askew and new and unwanted expectations can arise. In fact, I thought the domination play was an attempt to turn her off. Since we have no insight into Don's psyche, we can't know if it was his plan and that it took a strange turn as they both enjoyed it a little too much or if the marital troubles of his mistress were only seen by him as an opportunity to bring their affair to the next level...

Anyway, the whole mistress thing in this season feels to me like artificial drama considering his relation with his current wife was established on honesty and communication. Yet, by the magic of inter-season ellipses, he is no longer happy in the relationship with his wife (which can make sense because of her career and her modernity - as opposed to Don's traditionalism), but he is also no longer able to communicate with her to try and resolve these issues, which is weird.

Pretty well said Szlia. Don's unhappiness with his wife doesn't make sense to me and his sudden S&D shit doesn't make sense, especially considering the timing of one of his greatest career successes ever. Sure, there are plenty of plausible explanations, but ultimately you have to make big assumptions to make one conclusion or another. That seems to be a trend for most of this season.

Szlia_sl said:

For me it made little sense considering what came before it.

His mistress' marriage is on the verge of explosion, which in extra-marital affair code means 'time to thread very carefully', because balance in repercussions for secret breaking is suddenly askew and new and unwanted expectations can arise. In fact, I thought the domination play was an attempt to turn her off. Since we have no insight into Don's psyche, we can't know if it was his plan and that it took a strange turn as they both enjoyed it a little too much or if the marital troubles of his mistress were only seen by him as an opportunity to bring their affair to the next level...

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I got out of it too. The whole Domination Don started before anything bad happened at work, so this was not based off any emasculation there. This was totally because he didn't want a sexual affair to turn into an actual relationship. And if it was heading to a more full time experience, he certainly didn't want it to remain vanilla sex, as the entire "kink" of the running around, and hiding ect, was the "spice" of the affair before.

It's just like Joan said to Roger in Season 1. "I know men. What you like IS the running around."

That aspect made the affair exciting...And now he hears and argument and she "needs" him--and then she starts bitching about her husband and how she is worried about her kid? Really headed into full blown baggage territory quick there.

Though I didn't take it as trying to turn her off--I think he was trying to control the relationship in such a way that he could keep those elements out and keep it exciting. I think he was a bit surprised when it blew up. But it went with the theme of the show, which was him going from the being in charge to be usurped.

Dabamf_sl said:

Pretty well said Szlia. Don's unhappiness with his wife

Click to expand...

This surprises me. Siz and I discussed this at the end of Season 5 (Disagreed )--Megan's transformation at the end of Season 5 into a more superficial, self-interested figure and how it turned Don off, completely. Given Megan's actions last season, I'm surprised why people don't see why Don dislikes her. Everything he based his initial attraction on was completely wiped away by the end of last Season.

She's great with Children....Then she doesn't want any and becomesannoyedwhen they are there.

She's interested in Don's profession.....She's not and hasalwayswanted to act (She just NEVER mentioned it before??).

She's self motivated and reliant (Independent)...She throws a fit when Don won't use his influence to unfairly get her a part. (Not to mention using his money for classes, extra time for auditions ect--rather than working during the day and going at night, or weekends. The show makes a point to mention this, when her friend talks about how Megan can stay at home all day and practice, without worrying about the rent ect.)

Megan sold herself to Don, she advertised herself as something she isn't. Don abhors that. That's why he's always had such a powerful self loathing, because he's always had to do that. He's always been happiest when he can drop the Don Draper routine and be himself (California--remember when he wanted to give up his super-rich status just to work on cars?).

In fact, even in his professional life, he hates it--Remember his argument with Duck Phillips..."I sell products,NOTadvertising." The way that was worded was important. Don has never liked making a product what it is not--he likes emphasizing what itis. I think that ties in heavily with the theme of the show...Don always has to sell himself. He wanted someone who was honest and open--and he slowly learned Megan wasn't that. She sold herself. She presented a false image and then used it to get what she wanted.

Heck, the writers even threw in a scene of Megan turning into her new persona just for us--when she fucked over her friend for the part. That was pretty shocking, for me at least, I'd never imagined Megan as a back stabber and this is despite her friendstrugglingand having to work a full time job (Which she laments to Megan), so Megan already had aHUGEadvantage on her and Megan still went and used Don as leverage to take the part. It was so shitty, and really showed how Megan can sell herself as something (Friend) and be something else (Back stabbing bitch.). It was how we were really smacked with her duplicity.

And that's what Don hates, I think. Because he has always been duplicitous, it's the nature of his life, it's what saved it. But I think, ultimately, he just wants to be Dick Whitman again. He's exhausted by the faces people put on.

^ that. All of that.

The combination of Mad Men and this thread makes me feel like a complete idiot. I don't see any of this stuff you guys are discussing when I watch. I was like "wtf is going on" during the weird/awkward domination scenes.

McCheese_sl said:

The combination of Mad Men and this thread makes me feel like a complete idiot. I don't see any of this stuff you guys are discussing when I watch. I was like "wtf is going on" during the weird/awkward domination scenes.

Click to expand...

I don't get a lot of it until after reading some people here say something and then thinking on it. I couldn't see myself watching this show without analyzing the scenes, makes it more fun.

Yeah I pick up on some of it following the show, but I'm usually watching it while gaming, so it's only afterwards reading this that I see all the little stuff tied together.

McCheese_sl said:

The combination of Mad Men and this thread makes me feel like a complete idiot. I don't see any of this stuff you guys are discussing when I watch. I was like "wtf is going on" during the weird/awkward domination scenes.

Click to expand...

I think anyone that says they get "everything" is just lying a lot of the stuff I see is only because someone else caught it, and I started thinking about it. But that's what makes these shows great. You can enjoy it just sitting down and watching it, and not picking up any of the smaller allegories or themes, except maybe 1 or 2. Then you talk about it, and the puzzle pieces come together (Maybe you notice one thing, a friend notices another and then the pieces start to fall into place), and it's like another layer of the show. Shows that work on different levels like that are the epitome of good entertainment, in my opinion--because they can be rewatched and entertain on a whole different spectrum given you now know what to look for. It's pretty neat, which is why I love discussing good shows here.

Really great analysis there Lithose

I think often times we over analyze Don's reason or desire for doing something, specifically with regards to women. If you remember his scene with Joan the other season when they went and 'test drove' a jaguar for the day, and ended up at a bar pseudo flirting with each other.. He had a line that struck me, when he said 'he doesn't know what he wants, only that he'swanting' in regards to Joan making a comment that most wives that get cheated on are only guilty of being familiar.

Sure, Megan has been shown by the show to not be perfect, but even if she was, Don would likely still be cheating on her eventually. It's a recurring theme in this show, and of the era, that men married for the family life and public status, but then whored around with mistresses behind their back. Hell, it's a pretty common theme in the entire world over the history of human life. Any time men of status are expected to marry at a young age 'because that's what you do' they do so, but then generally end up having mistresses on the side, visiting whore houses, etc..

Even Betty called it when Megan and Don first got married, she had some line like 'I hope she knows Don is only interested in the beginning of things'.

So, yes, Megan has changed from our viewpoint, but that's not necessarily why Don is cheating on her. I mean, you could make an argument that women pretending to be a man's perfect woman just to get him to marry them, and then showing who they really are over the course of the marriage is why most men cheated on their wives.. but that seems like a chicken/egg argument, there's no concrete conclusion or answer to it.

The domination aspect of him and Sylvia was not some overly subtle way of ending the relationship, or to keep it from getting more serious. Her saying 'I need you, and nothing else will do' along with knowing she was having marital problems flipped a switch in him that made him realize he could have total control over her, i.e. he had all the power, which turned him on so he took it as far as he could. She was unhappy at home, so she calls him. That tells Don how much she likes him.

This show man... what can you say.

It would seem that we're firmly on the deconstruction of Draper arc though, and it'll probably go all the way to the end. I've got a feeling there's gonna be a lot of cringing "God DAMN it Don, that's a BAD idea. Stop. STOP. God damn it" moments to be had from here on in.

But at least these guys can do that and keep it from feeling like you're watching some relentlessly depressing fucking french "art" film.

"Are we negroes?" ahhhahaha

I suspect that anyone that has tried harder stimulants will love this episode, shit was spot on. Lots of productivity, but no creativity.

Were they on speed? What the hell was that?

This was one of the weirdest, and best, episodes of a tv show I've ever seen.

Trollface_sl said:

What do you think about the scene where Don kills that redhead prostitute in his dream state? What does that symbolize? Don seemed pretty happy when Megan was around with him all the time at the agency.

Click to expand...

You talking about this most recent episode? He didn't kill anything, and it was a memory of his childhood, not a dream.