Mad Men

I was very happy to see Peggy finally confront Joan about how awful Joan was in season 1.

Well I think that seals it, Megan is going to die.

Megan told him to go swimming. He smokes hash, tells the chick he is thirsty, she tells him to go to the pool, Megan shows up in a big hallucination. So I am interpreting that as him rejecting that bitch and trying to be with his idealized version of Megan, Megan = the pool in this case.

Alex_sl said:

Smoking a little weed will do Pete a lot of good.

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I hope this is the beginning of counter-culture Pete, because that would be hilarious.

Stoner Pete is gonna be sooooooooooo awesome.

Then there was they "dying doesn't make you whole. You should see what you look like" thing which puts that broody dark-ass spin on it in typical Draper style.

I hope they don't do Joan as dirty as I suspect they might. Why Pete still goes to Don with ANY problem that Pete has and expects more than "yeah? Go fuck yourself" is fucking beyond me... considering the shit Pete tried to pull in the very first season.

Who is running the finances if Joan wants to play Account Man?

Pete keeps getting pushed out, and has finally given up. I am curious to see what way they go. I hope the Pot wasnt him becoming a "hippie" was much as him giving up, and hopefully soon he turns into a mad man (no pun intended) looking for revenge. Would love to see him burn the company and bail. Just to shake some things up.

Cutler is really off the wall right now. Harry Hamlin is doing a great job. I love the internal struggle.

I'm always more a Joan hater than a lover but I don't see why everyone is so happy she undermined Pete. She possibly fucked up a gigantic account just so she could get her rocks off playing accounts. Even if Avon works out she broke protocol completely and that shouldn't be awarded with "Go Joan!" speeches. Pete may be pretty disliked (personally I don't hate him that much) but all indications are that he is pretty damn good at his job. To competely push him out should have gone punished not ignored I feel. Joan just never goes about climbing the ladder in the correct way.

The whole thing is a ponzi scheme anyway. I mean what do Roger and Burt even do besides for get paid?

Ok, Roger snagged chevy, so that old dog still has a few tricks. But the firm is named for the 2 of them and... they do just about the least.

So she broke protocol. That's fine when the protocol is stupid.

Roger also sold the company to Carnation last night. I think everyone knows Burt is just a figurehead. I'm not sure why you bring up either names, though, since they have nothing to do with the Joan/Pete storyline.

Iannis_sl said:

The whole thing is a ponzi scheme anyway. I mean what do Roger and Burt even do besides for get paid?

Ok, Roger snagged chevy, so that old dog still has a few tricks. But the firm is named for the 2 of them and... they do just about the least.

So she broke protocol. That's fine when the protocol is stupid.

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There was an entire arc in Season 2 with Hilton where Don admitted the accounts process was needed and he apologized for thinking he could do it. Roger's ego essentially stopped the company, and forced Don to apologize.

Tenks_sl said:

Roger also sold the company to Carnation last night. I think everyone knows Burt is just a figurehead. I'm not sure why you bring up either names, though, since they have nothing to do with the Joan/Pete storyline.

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I haven't seen this episode. (I don't mind spoilers)...But essentially it was a huge to do when Don cut Roger out of the accounts process.

Honestly, Pete's an ass--but he's right. He gets shit on, while simultaneously being one of the most valuable members of the company. If Joan circumvented Pete, like it sounds like, that same action would not have been stood for (And it wasn't) if it had been Roger who was under cut by someone outside of accounts. I think that's the point people are trying to make--these storyline was done already, between Don and Roger.

Iannis_sl said:

Then there was they "dying doesn't make you whole. You should see what you look like" thing which puts that broody dark-ass spin on it in typical Draper style.

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That line made me wonder if this episode is going to be the turning point for Don. The scene had a certain baptism element to it.

Tenks_sl said:

I'm always more a Joan hater than a lover but I don't see why everyone is so happy she undermined Pete. She possibly fucked up a gigantic account just so she could get her rocks off playing accounts. Even if Avon works out she broke protocol completely and that shouldn't be awarded with "Go Joan!" speeches. Pete may be pretty disliked (personally I don't hate him that much) but all indications are that he is pretty damn good at his job. To competely push him out should have gone punished not ignored I feel. Joan just never goes about climbing the ladder in the correct way.

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Joan is struggling with the fact that's she's a partner, but she's notreallya partner. When she was giving the Avon guy the spiel and he asked her what she did, she obviously didn't want to give the real answer: Despite being a partner and taking over Lane's job, she's still basically just the head secretary. Of course, a lot of this is because of the way she moved up. She was key in Jaguar being landed, but has never been valued for doing so. I think she saw this as her way of proving herself and getting an account that didn't involve her screwing a client so she could move beyond that. I can see rooting for her in that regard, but it was obviously the wrong action for her to take and one I doubt will get her the respect she desires.

No argument here you're spot on Cantatus. You could tell in the past few episodes she was feeling like she was second fiddle to all the other partners and this was a way of proving herself via her actions. But she moved up to a partner by screwing someone so I don't know why you'd expect the same level or respect as a Don Draper who got there off his talent. I'm sure she is a great secretary but the scenes last night led to me believe that is all she is good at. These power-play moves always may sense in the mind of the person performing them until retrospect is assessed and it is clear the best way to move up is off your own work. Not by muscling others out.

Lithose_sl said:

There was an entire arc in Season 2 with Hilton where Don admitted the accounts process was needed and he apologized for thinking he could do it. Roger's ego essentially stopped the company, and forced Don to apologize.





I haven't seen this episode. (I don't mind spoilers)...But essentially it was a huge to do when Don cut Roger out of the accounts process.

Honestly, Pete's an ass--but he's right. He gets shit on, while simultaneously being one of the most valuable members of the company. If Joan circumvented Pete, like it sounds like, that same action would not have been stood for (And it wasn't) if it had been Roger who was under cut by someone outside of accounts. I think that's the point people are trying to make--these storyline was done already, between Don and Roger.

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It's not the same storyline, really. Don's underlying theme was "I am bigger than the company." He didn't value anyone else, and really didn't even understand what they did, and he paid for that. Joan's is more like "I want respect and recognition for the job I have essentially been doing for like 10+ years anyway." She sees the writing on the wall, she will continue to be marginalized within the office until she takes action. Not that what she did was correct, she probably could have worked something out with Pete if she had tried.

chaos_sl said:

Not that what she did was correct, she probably could have worked something out with Pete if she had tried.

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I do wonder how that would've worked out. Pete is in the same position as Joan: feeling under-appreciated and increasingly marginalized. Duck was just telling him he needs to make some big moves, and this could've been a really significant win for him. I could see him bringing in Joan if he felt it was necessary to secure the account (given Jaguar, he is obviously okay with using Joan to do that), but I'm sure he still would've made people know that it was he who got SC&P the account.

Iannis_sl said:

The whole thing is a ponzi scheme anyway. I mean what do Roger and Burt even do besides for get paid?

Ok, Roger snagged chevy, so that old dog still has a few tricks. But the firm is named for the 2 of them and... they do just about the least.

So she broke protocol. That's fine when the protocol is stupid.

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Uh, they are all partners. Technically, they don't have to do shit. They own the company, they don't necessarily have to accomplish anything. It's in their best interest for the agency to do well because they can be bought out by the other partners for more if the business is doing well, but at this point the senior partners (Roger, Bert, Don) are so loaded that it really doesn't make a difference. Which is why they can just nap in their office and be drunkards.

It's not a ponzi scheme, it's business ownership. If it were a ponzi scheme, all of their employees would be paying them.

Iannis_sl said:

The whole thing is a ponzi scheme anyway. I mean what do Roger and Burt even do besides for get paid?

Ok, Roger snagged chevy, so that old dog still has a few tricks. But the firm is named for the 2 of them and... they do just about the least.

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Welcome to the corporate world? The entire point of starting a business and getting it to the point where it runs itself (via other people you hire and trust) is so that you can reap the rewards and chill out. I'm sure they worked hard as well back in the day to build up the company so they deserve to have an easy time now.

Elurin_sl said:

Uh, they are all partners. Technically, they don't have to do shit. They own the company, they don't necessarily have to accomplish anything. It's in their best interest for the agency to do well because they can be bought out by the other partners for more if the business is doing well, but at this point the senior partners (Roger, Bert, Don) are so loaded that it really doesn't make a difference. Which is why they can just nap in their office and be drunkards.

It's not a ponzi scheme, it's business ownership. If it were a ponzi scheme, all of their employees would be paying them.

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On that note I don't know if anyone watched the commercials during Mad Men last night but I love the scene between Don and Peggy from the classic Mad Men re-wind they were doing where she is like

"I just wish you said 'Thank you' to me."
"Thats what the money is for!" [referring to her pay]

chaos_sl said:

It's not the same storyline, really. Don's underlying theme was "I am bigger than the company." He didn't value anyone else, and really didn't even understand what they did, and he paid for that. Joan's is more like "I want respect and recognition for the job I have essentially been doing for like 10+ years anyway." She sees the writing on the wall, she will continue to be marginalized within the office until she takes action. Not that what she did was correct, she probably could have worked something out with Pete if she had tried.

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True, the storyline is not the same--it's better to say the conflict is, that someone from outside accounts feels like just because they've interacted with clients before, that they can do the job of an accounts person. I personally think Joan would do great in accounts BUT I agree with Peggy, if she wanted it, she should have worked her way up under Pete, just like Peggy did under Don.

Tenks_sl said:

Joan just never goes about climbing the ladder in the correct way.

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The first time Joan actually tried advancing the correct way, when she was reading scripts for Harry looking for potential sponsor pitfalls, she was cast aside without a second thought in spite of being good at it. So there is some basis for her believing that she wouldn't be given an honest shot because all she's ever done is oversee the secretarial pool.

Lithose_sl said:

I think that's the point people are trying to make--these storyline was done already, between Don and Roger.

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Actually you're right they are going over old ground with this, but it's from Season 1 when Pete (ironically) tried to pitch copy to Bethlehem Steel and Don fired him for it.