Man Kills Drunk Driver Who Killed His Kids - Your Take

Homsar

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Running out of gas? trying to play devils advocate because he should have know he was low on gas and was next to his house? Dude was drunk and killed 2 children, the father will blame himself the rest of his life for something that he shouldnt really feel that guilty about
 

Tuco

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Yeah, we have laws to prevent feel good law enforcement. I know it won't make me popular, but this guy is guilty. Was he rightfully angry? Yup. He had perfect motivation to act as he did. However, one of the things that separates us from animals is impulse control. Work through the system, get the maximum sentence for this guy, and get a lot of counseling to help you cope.
I'd say another thing that separates us from animals is the ability to shoot the man who killed your family and get away without being convicted of a crime. Based on that I'd say he's innocent. And yes that has the same argumentative weight as your specious reasoning.
 

lurkingdirk

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I'd say another thing that separates us from animals is the ability to shoot the man who killed your family and get away without being convicted of a crime. Based on that I'd say he's innocent. And yes that has the same argumentative weight as your specious reasoning.
Interesting that you find it specious. We have laws, this man didn't follow them. While he will attract the sympathy of all, he's outside the law.

And I find it problematic that you think being able to get away with it is something that separates us from animals. It's animalistic behaviour to murder out of anger or revenge. But whatever.

I don't wish anything bad on this guy, I think he's suffering quite enough. I want us to be aware of the slippery slope responses like this can create. That's all.
 

Ambiturner

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Doing something based on an idea of what should separate men from animals doesn't make you a better person. Making decisions that are backed up by "Rules are rules!!" is for stupid people who can't think on their own.

Plus, I'm ok with this opening the flood gates of people who kill someone's children in front of the parents and end up being killed as a result. Would not convict
 

Cad

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Two scenarios:

A> They can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the father did the shooting. In this situation, I'd convict, but not of murder. Manslaughter yes.

B> They can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt the father did the shooting; there appears to be some contradictory evidence. If after hearing the evidence I wasn't convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the father did it, I'd acquit. Prosecutors need to make their case.
 

Cad

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Double post

Edit to add: I would definitely have beaten the guy to death under the same circumstances.
 

Tanoomba

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Interesting that you find it specious. We have laws, this man didn't follow them. While he will attract the sympathy of all, he's outside the law.

And I find it problematic that you think being able to get away with it is something that separates us from animals. It's animalistic behaviour to murder out of anger or revenge. But whatever.

I don't wish anything bad on this guy, I think he's suffering quite enough. I want us to be aware of the slippery slope responses like this can create. That's all.
There's no "slippery slope" here.

We already distinguish between pre-meditated violent acts and acts performed in the heat of the moment. We've acknowledged that there are circumstances in which one can not be expected to behave rationally, and if watching your children die at the hands of a drunk driver is not one of those circumstances, I don't know what is.
 

Palum

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There's no "slippery slope" here.

We already distinguish between pre-meditated violent acts and acts performed in the heat of the moment. We've acknowledged that there are circumstances in which one can not be expected to behave rationally, and if watching your children die at the hands of a drunk driver is not one of those circumstances, I don't know what is.
Yea the latter is still called Murder II dumbass.
 

Famm

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HE SHOULD GET TO KILL THAT MAN'S FAMILY TOO, ITS ONLY FAIR AMIRITE!?!?!
 

Palum

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No it's not.
It's either Murder II or Voluntary Manslaughter depending on mitigating circumstances but it most certainly is not 'nothing'. In this case the man went and retrieved a firearm with intent to kill the perp, it is definitely Murder II. Doesn't mean TE isn't off the table, but he had intent to kill.

Voluntary manslaughter (also referred to as third-degree murder), sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed". Both this and second-degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second-degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter.[8]
 

Sebudai

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Arbitrary adherence to the rules in the face of all common sense is what separates us from the animals!
 

Cad

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It's either Murder II or Voluntary Manslaughter depending on mitigating circumstances but it most certainly is not 'nothing'.
Murder 2 is typically a non pre-meditated murder; some provocation or mitigating circumstance can knock it down to manslaughter. With the mitigating circumstance being this drunk asshole just killed this guys kids, I don't see how anyone convicts him of murder 2.
 

The Master

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Interesting that you find it specious. We have laws, this man didn't follow them. While he will attract the sympathy of all, he's outside the law.

And I find it problematic that you think being able to get away with it is something that separates us from animals. It's animalistic behaviour to murder out of anger or revenge. But whatever.

I don't wish anything bad on this guy, I think he's suffering quite enough. I want us to be aware of the slippery slope responses like this can create. That's all.
This is total nonsense. Murder is something thatonlyhumans do. Animals don't murder, not by the definition we use for that word. When animals do kill something, it is so rarely out of anger or a desire for revenge that it is basically a non-event. That is, again, something only humans do. To take two things that only humans do and describe that as animalistic is absurd. Even if he did it, it wouldn't be murder, it would be manslaughter. A person in emotional (and probably physical) shock isn't capable of premeditation, a prerequisite for murder.

One of our laws is also innocent until proven guilty. So far he isn't outside the law, because he hasn't done anything. Legally speaking. I'm OK with that.
 

Ambiturner

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It's either Murder II or Voluntary Manslaughter depending on mitigating circumstances but it most certainly is not 'nothing'. In this case the man went and retrieved a firearm with intent to kill the perp, it is definitely Murder II. Doesn't mean TE isn't off the table, but he had intent to kill.
You don't get any more "mitigating circumstances" than this.
 

supertouch_sl

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This is clearly premeditated murder. If the jury doesn't convict him of that, they might wanna brush up on their legal definitions.
 

Palum

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Murder 2 is typically a non pre-meditated murder; some provocation or mitigating circumstance can knock it down to manslaughter. With the mitigating circumstance being this drunk asshole just killed this guys kids, I don't see how anyone convicts him of murder 2.
I respectfully disagree. The operative issue is intent to kill. Of course it's very likely a jury won'tconvictbut that's what he did. In some jurisdictions, you could even go with Murder I because there was a time lapse between the accident and his 'execution' whereby he thought about killing the guy, retrieved a weapon and acted on a plan. I'm not sure because it didn't seem to say the time lapse. I could see Murder I being impossible if he literally woke up a few seconds later after the daze wore off and pulled the gun out of his glove box and opened fire... but then how did he know the guy was drunk?
 

Cad

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I respectfully disagree. The operative issue is intent to kill. Of course it's very likely a jury won'tconvictbut that's what he did. In some jurisdictions, you could even go with Murder I because there was a time lapse between the accident and his 'execution' whereby he thought about killing the guy, retrieved a weapon and acted on a plan.
Each states laws are different, and the differences are codified by statute. In Texas, you're right. Any intent to kill and its murder. Under the model penal code (which isn't the law in any state, exactly, but parts of it are adopted by many states) we have:

Under the Model Penal Code, manslaughter includes:

.Reckless homicide
.Homicide that would be murder, but "is committed under the influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance for which there is reasonable explanation or excuse."

So really, it depends heavily on the state we're discussing.
 

Agraza

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Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

If I killed some guy's two kids, I would expect and respect the guy for offing me if I hadn't done it myself yet. If I was being charged for murdering the man who shot my two kids, I would want to be released.