Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Phazael_sl said:

It always comes back to the crazy. Crazy is the one thing you can't fix and it shits over everything, including child rearing.

Side note to Khane, I know the kinds of equal partner Khane wants exist, I just think he is either looking in the wrong places or holding potential candidates to unrealistically high standards of perfection.

PS- Not saying that was the case with the teacher, but you do know women vent in the most sadistic ways possible about their jobs when they come home from work, even if they love their careers right? Wish I had learned that lesson a lot earlier than I did....

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I'm not really looking at all. I'm perfectly OK with being single for the rest of my life. If it happens, great. If not, doesn't matter to me.

As for her venting in sadistic ways, I don't really need to go into gory detail as to why the two of us didn't work out. Suffice to say she was the most selfish person I've ever met, and that's saying a lot because I am pretty selfish.

Onoes_sl said:

1.) No, I asked her to cover half of it, she didn't want to and was ok just letting the kids lose health insurance. I paid it all myself instead of that happening.
2.) Yes, she had been, unbeknownst to me on the food stamps. She didn't end up moving into the assisted living place, or going back to college. So, just the food stamps/kids health insurance.
3.) My divorce papers say I don't need to pay child support. I have a perfect record of every single check I've made out to her, all of which state "Child Support - Oct 2015" or whatever on them.
4.) I don't think she's a scumbag. She's a pretty good mom. She works full time, does yoga and plays softball outside of that. She completely stopped going out after that first year of partying. The kids like being at my house more because I'm a big kid. I'm way more patient than her, and we do tons of fun stuff, largely because we have the money to do more stuff. So, I would say its a combination of me wanting to be more involved with them, plus having games everywhere, and doing fun trips. The kids are about to turn 7 and 8, they don't think a lot past swimming, going to Disneyland, and playing Minecraft.

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Based on #1 and #2 I'm going to have to disagree with your initial assessment in #4

Khane_sl said:

I mean... it's a pretty good indicator.

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No, it really isn't. If you provide for the basic needs of your child without subjecting them to mental or physical abuse, you're a fit parent. It's possible to do that while being a racist, while saying you hope your special needs student gets raped behind a gas station, or even as a Christian. Unfit parents are parents so bad that the government can take their kids away, and if you've really dated a large number of women who would make that bad of a mother, I really wonder where the fuck you meet women.

Khane_sl said:

Well you could consider my need to feel as though my partner is my peer shallow. But the fact of the matter is there is no way I am going to sacrifice my lifestyle for anyone. That wouldn't be a concern except women, every woman I've ever dated in fact, is incapable of fully abandoning traditional gender roles. So when push comes to shove they expect me to elevate their lifestyle and sacrifice my own because I'm the male provider and when I refuse to do shit like pay for vacations they can't afford or pay 4x the rent they do just because "that's fair" well sorry sweetheart, there's the door. It's absurd that even the successful, career oriented women I've dated admit to me they would like to take at least 4-5 years off from work to raise children as if they'll be able to just jump right back into the work force after the fact. And those are the more ambitious ones, some want to be a stay at home mom full time after marriage.

I expect the woman I am with to be an independent adult capable of taking care of themselves because I sure as shit am not going to live the rest of my life like Onoes if it doesn't work out. I am not afraid of commitment because I can't settle down or choose one woman to sleep with for the rest of my life. I am afraid of commitment because I don't want someone stealing my livelihood simply because we grew apart and needed to go our separate ways.

The funny thing is when I talk about things like a stay at home situation and traditional gender roles not working for me the women are fully on board and totally love being empowered and being their own woman. Until they find out how much money I make. Then they start to say stupid shit like "Well don't you want your kids to be raised by your wife instead of strangers?"

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This is me to a T, just add an extra dose of marriage fear because I watched my parents rip each others lives apart, and my own mother game the legal system to her advantage.

But yeah, the whole entitlement schtick is probably the number one thing that eventually sinks my relationships. No matter how successful the chick is, once she finds out how I live and/or how well off I am, the sense of entitlement kicks in. Pay for dinner, pay for vacations, expectations for birthday/Christmas gifts. Talk about how she'd love to take off years when she has kids and would love to take up yoga.. When you combine this with the drivel about wanting a "southern gentleman" that opens doors, plans the evening, does the driving, etc-- you reach an epiphany at around the six month mark where you say "what am I getting out of this besides sex"?

I'll be honest and say that the less attractive the woman, the less likely she's to suffer this double-standard, but then my dick doesn't work, so what do?

Twilight Sparkle_sl said:

No, it really isn't. If you provide for the basic needs of your child without subjecting them to mental or physical abuse, you're a fit parent. It's possible to do that while being a racist, while saying you hope your special needs student gets raped behind a gas station, or even as a Christian. Unfit parents are parents so bad that the government can take their kids away, and if you've really dated a large number of women who would make that bad of a mother, I really wonder where the fuck you meet women.

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Well I think we're going to have to agree to disagree Gavin.

I want a woman who will go above and beyond for her children. Just going through the motions and making sure the kids survive isn't "fit" to me.

Well, words do have meanings. A fit parent is essentially one that at least meets the minimum standard of competence to be allowed to keep their child. You're looking for an excellent mother and you dated a bunch of women that you think would have been mediocre mothers.

Fair enough.

Phazael_sl said:

Onoes:
You are a nice guy who lives in the moment and thinks the best of people. You are simply not equipped to recognize that your ex is playing you, the system, and frankly anything else to keep herself in princess status. She is basically a deadbeat mom and you are going to end up eating the shit sandwich over all of this when she feels you are finally not gullible enough to eat her bullshit, but by then it will be too late. Literally everything you are complaining about was something people here (and apparently IRL) warned you about in excruciating detail well before you had no chance to protect yourself. At this point you are completely fucked and its about saving what you can out of what is important. The longer it takes you to realize this, the less you will have left when the smoke settles.

Side point, what does your new woman say about this shit when you tell her about it? I am guessing you don't even discuss it with her, likely because you know deep down what it sounds like.

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Technically, what everyone here said was going to happen was that she was going to show up in court with a lawyer, take the house, take the kids, fuck me sideways and ruin my life. I'm sure I can go back and find where a ton of people were saying she was documenting everything, where I was going to come home to changed locks, restraining orders, etc.

None of that happened.

Yes, she has a shitty lawyer friend who is going "Why stay on good terms, fuck himmmmm!" apparently. When I offered her extra money because we both believed I owed it to her she tried to turn it down. She wouldn't do that if she trying to rob me. She's had 3 years to try and pull a fast one on me, or fuck me in any way, and we've had all of two arguments, both understandable.

I just feel like we are heading to a point where I'm going to tell her "turns out I don't have to pay you more every year, etc" and she is dumb, so she is going to ask her friends, who I'm sure will be like "He's trying to screw you!" in the exact same way all of you immediately jump to "She's trying to screw you!".

It is really weird to even talk about, because we've been fine, we've had one increase is money because her friend said we should, something we both just assumed was right because we assumed her friend knows what she is talking about. Turns out it isn't, and she doesn't. I might tell her that and she could go "really? But she said... can you show me where it says that? I'm sorry, I just assumed..." that could happen. We're still friends. We hang out at family functions, we talk, I have 30 minute phone calls with her just shooting the shit sometimes.

It's not your typical divorce. Roll your eyes and call me an idiot all you like. Here's the way I see it so far.

Divorce with no lawyer on good terms =
you- you're fucked! You idiot, you're going to lose everything
what happened- 2 mild arguments in 3 years, me rethinking the arrangement to cover my ass just in case

Meeting a married woman, her filing for divorce and moving in with me=
you- lol, you idiot, see how that works out
what happened- A year and a half later, happiest I've been in my entire life

I mean, as much as everyone is shouting TOLD YOU SO!!!!11!!!11!! I'm just not seeing it.



As for the side point, I talk to her about everything. Mostly she just rolls her eyes and goes "I'm so glad I don't have to deal with my ex's idiocy, sorry love", because she likes that I try to do what I see as right, that I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and she also just thinks my ex is just kind of coasting and doesn't think anything out. Then she says something like "Anyway, it's getting late and I'm going to get sleepy soon, would you rather play video games together or fuck? I've only got the energy for one." and I say "I love you" and give her a forehead kiss. Then I let her play Junkrat even though I want to.

No, what most of us have been saying is that your ass is up in the air and you could potentially lose everything because you've taken absolutely no action to protect yourself. The fact that she hasn't come after you yet doesn't mean a goddamn thing, and the idea that you're still only contemplating covering your ass after hitting some serious turbulence (relative to how your relationship with her has gone since the divorce) is completely ludicrous. The bottom line is that the potential exists for you to get completely fucked over, and if you actually acknowledged that possibility instead of dancing around it or dismissing it, you would immediately take steps to cover your ass, not just 'rethink the arrangement just in case'. By the time just in case happens, it will already be too goddamn late.

You may have gotten lucky so far, but people like you are where all the really awful divorce/child support stories come from.

Onoes_sl said:

3.) My divorce papers say I don't need to pay child support. I have a perfect record of every single check I've made out to her, all of which state "Child Support - Oct 2015" or whatever on them.

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Your divorce papers and check register will be worth precisely the paper they are written on when her lawyer friend finally convinces her to go after you. If not that, then the state will get you once they catch up to all of this thanks to all of the assistance she is getting.

Serious turbulence? Even though you said relative to whats normal, you have to admit that its understandable she be concerned when I move a woman in with me that I've known for 3 months and is 2 weeks divorced or something, and that she have issues with the first mothers day she is asked to share the kids with what is effectively a step mother figure. Both times she got a little worked up, and both times she calmed right down and things have been fine since.

There's no imminent danger of her turning and fucking me, there is no reason for it right now. Towards the tail end of my book, I wrote how I need to get the house moved over to solely my name. Taking her to court could turn that into an issue. Lets be clear, I'm the one talking about being the aggressor here. I'm the one talking about taking her to court to get some money issues worked out so that I will pay her less over the next 12 years, and limits her options in the future.

As far as she is concerned we are doing the money fairly, and if she can just get a free $300 a month from the government cool. I would be surprised if half the girls in her office weren't doing that too. I'm the one who wants to lock this down tighter legally so that A.) I pay less, and B.) I have a greater chance of taking the kids in the future if it ever comes to that.

Not that I want to be a dick about it or anything, I'm still fine with whatever the state says is fair, and yeah, maybe I've gotten lucky so far, but I don't think people like me are not where the horror stories come from. My parents had a horror story divorce, and so did hers, neither of us wants that.

Onoes_sl said:

Serious turbulence?

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Gavinrad_sl said:

serious turbulence(relative to how your relationship with her has gone since the divorce)

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Twilight Sparkle_sl said:

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He did read it. .. did you? That's what he referenced immediately after. He just disagrees it's that serious even in that context.

Even though you said relative to whats normal, you have to admit that its understandable she be concerned

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Anyways, I'm leaving work in a minute, I may check this later but I may not. I know no one likes to hear shit contrary to their viewpoint, but this just gets grim. I'm reminded right now of a friend I used to have. He was a black cloud of misery and self pity. He would just shit on anything. Every single time we hung out, or I even talked to him on the phone, I would hang up/walk away feeling exactly like I'm feeling right now. Why did I just hang out with him? He brings nothing but misery, and I always walk away in a shitty/confused mood. Eventually I just cut him out, haven't seen him in years now, he was just the worst, and I've not once found myself wishing we could hang out again. My life has been objectively better since I dropped him.

That's kind of what this feels like anymore, and I think I remember why I stopped posting in the first place. I posted that expecting some flak, but also expecting some joking around, some advice, some congratulations on how well shit has been going even. Instead its all "TOLD YOU SO FUCKHEAD", "No point talking to him, he's too much of an idiot", "Just stand back and watch him get fucking in the ass by this whore".

Uhhh guys? where did you even get that stuff from? People flat out saying they didn't read the post but EXACTLY what they said was going to happen happened. No... no it didn't. Shits been fine. By all indications shit will continue to be fine for 12 more years. Or not. Maybe I've just been super lucky like a couple of you have said. Or maybe it's been working and you were wrong?

I mean, I feel like we've established that it would be a good idea to get my child support legal through the courts. I feel like I've agreed with that. Yeah, I didn't do that originally, because I was trying to help out a lady I loved for many years, who I had children with, who I still think is a good person, who I just don't have a lot of shared interests with anymore. It hasn't bit me on the ass yet. It might in the future. Would it be wise to correct that? Yes.

See how I said that without the intention of making another human being feel like shit?

I don't know, maybe the forum hasn't changed, maybe I've just developed thin skin from just being happy and surrounded with positivity all the time.

Anyway, I'm going to go home, play with my kids and SO now. Thanks to anyone who wasn't just actively being a dick for no reason I guess? Thanks to both of you.

I could always make it a thing where every couple of years I post an update, you can all shit on it and tell me how its going to fall apart any day now, and I'll go back to my awesome life full of forehead kisses? We all win?

DickTrickle_sl said:

He did read it. .. did you? That's what he referenced immediately after. He just disagrees it's that serious even in that context.

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Exactly what I'm talking about. Have another helping of shit. Thanks for the backup DickTrickle.

Welcome to earth Onoes. Enjoy your stay.

Yeah, I don't think things are anywhere near as dire as these turds are making it out to be. You'd think she fucking raped you with her lawyer's cock and made you eat her shit filled with all your money.

The tricky thing now though, as you pointed out, is if you do try to cover your ass, she'll probably get the people on her side (like RR) saying, "He's going to fuck you so hard, lawyer up and have no mercy before he takes your money and kids and replaces you with his new woman!" I don't know how you navigate to getting a legal agreement from here without potentially setting off a legal proliferation.

Dude, you've described a pretty goddamn harmonious relationship with your ex so I don't really give a shit if you disagree with me calling this serious turbulence. Relative to how you've gotten along since the divorce (as far as you've told us) this is serious shit and a major warning sign.

I normally try to stay out of the marriage arguments, mainly for the fact that I'm not married but I've been in a relationship for 7 years so I don't know what side I should argue on.

This I do know Onoes, get you a lawyer. Wanting to believe in the good of a person sounds nice and I respect you for that but seriously cover your ass. Your ex and the situation you're in sounds almost exactly like the fucking my sister gave her ex. My sister is a mega welfare sucking baby making waste of a human who got her exhusband to pay for everything forever (it seems like) because he thought everything was going to be chill. I'm not trying to be negative but for fucks sake son the warning signs are there, plus she has a "lawyer friend" who sounds like a cunt. Cunt + divorce + money = Onoes gets butt fucked. You keep saying your reasonable, child support and that bullshit process is as far from reasonable as possible.