Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread

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TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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[Dumar=QUOTE]you need to own less and less.....
claim such a ridiculous notion[/QUOTE]

Thanks bro, you made my night.
 

hodj

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There's this constant thought of something being 'taken away', but that's not the right way to think about it.
Yeah, well, what if we do think about it that way, because, you know, we've invested decades of our lives working and struggling and scrimping and saving to buy it, and now you're taking it away, and telling us you will have the right to SHOOT US for resisting YOU when you come to steal OUR SHIT because you'll be DEFENDING YOURSELF against US.

In socialism and on the road to real communism, you need to own less and less. It doesn't make sense to own a piece of land under communism because there's no real reason anyone would claim such a ridiculous notion of 'owning the land' to begin with: you don't need exclusive access to the thing.
Oh, I'm sure that'll work out great when one farmer is trying to grow corn on the same plot of land a farmer wants to grow strawberries.

And you have an unstated premise. WHY would we need to own less and less? Why doesn't it make sense to own a piece of land under communism? Why wouldn't someone need exclusive access to land if they were, for instance, a cattle farmer who needs to feed his cattle in the same fields that another worker is trying to grow squash?

Why do none of your answers even consider these questions?

You mention your dad has walnut trees on his property. Maybe someone else wants to plant apple trees. Yes, absolutely that is an issue to resolve. But the resolution to that issue, under communism, will be solved differently than who has the slip of paper saying they 'own' the land to plant it on.
So the walnut trees that his father has been growing for 30 years could be cut down because some fucking ad hoc party process could vote that he has no right to grow them on his property, instead the guy who wants to grow apples has that right instead? Why are all your arguments so fucking bad? What right do you have to tell a man with 30 year old walnut trees to cut them down so another man can plant apple trees? Fuck you and fuck that. Oh wait, now you're going to shoot me for dissenting!

Oh, in another thread you were arguing that human history, the full scope of human history, its evolutionary part, didn't matter.


You have to look at a much bigger picture, the picture of human history,
Now we have to look at the "picture of human history" in context? What context? Your context?

Because your context ignores 100,000 years of human evolution, and focuses on basically the past 6000 years to the exclusion of all others.

Anyway, there's that Eurocentric view of the progressive nature of culture, that racist bigoted view that allowed Europeans justification for conquering the Americas, Africa, India and Asia and subjugating their people to mass genocide and slavery and exploitation coming through your rhetoric again as well.
 

hodj

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Someone has to make the decision as to how that farm/factory will be utilized or else it will go fallow. Who makes that decision in a world without property rights?
Didn't you hear, there won't be a State and no organizations or heirarchies, so NO ONE gets to make that decision!

Cheer!

We've destroyed 150,000 years of successful human cultural adaptation for a fairy's fart of a fantasy dream of a narcissist!
 

iannis

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decisions just happen man, just like in real life. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Do what dumar does. Seclude yourself in a room and work hard to forget anything you think you've learned about yourself. Also huff butane.

In 5 or 6 years, I promise it will make sense.
 

iannis

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I mean at this point he's not even arguing socialism/communism/*ism anymore. He's arguing for a benevolent anarchy ala some fucked up thought experiment of Robert Heinlein's.

You ever notice how Heinlein had a massive hard-on for his own mother? Like seriously, that shit is disturbing.
 

hodj

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Heinlein was awesome though.

When I was like 13 I read Stranger in a Strange Land and Job: A Comedy of Justice.

Completely altered the way I viewed the world fundamentally.

Still love reading his books now and then.
 

hodj

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Also the supposed end state of Marxist doctrine really is basically supposed to be a benevolent form of social anarchy, a stateless, classless, everything is shared equally because everyone owns and has access to the means of production and surplus.

I don't know how the fuck you make that work past the stone age, and no one else does either.

The only time resources don't matter is when you can literally walk outside and pick them up off the ground, good luck doing that with your car, your pc, your tv, etc.
 

Dumar_sl

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Sleepy, gotta work for those capitalists tomorrow. Will answer further this notion of 'stealing' property someone owns in communism.
 

iannis

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Oh, he is awesome. But that shitisdisturbing.

I don't know if you'd notice his fetish if you didn't read a wide selection of his work spanning decades of his life. You hit it once a little bit in Stranger and it's like "Oh, he's making a point about social taboo". But then you hit it three or four more times in other books/stories and you gotta start thinking to yourself, "Ok Robert, exactly what the fuck are you trying to tell us... this isn't a social commentary anymore, is it?"

I've never regretted reading Heinlein though.
 

TheBeagle

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Heinlein was awesome though.

When I was like 13 I read Stranger in a Strange Land and Job: A Comedy of Justice.

Completely altered the way I viewed the world fundamentally.

Still love reading his books now and then.
As you work through Ochem I homework, make sure you really, really, really learn Sn1, Sn2, E1 and E2 rxn mechanisms....its been 3 semesters since i took ochem I and I'm having to relearn all that shit. FML.
 

hodj

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Sleepy, gotta work for those capitalists tomorrow. Will answer further this notion of 'stealing' property someone owns in communism.
I thought you already answered that when you said that you won't be redistributing our property even though you'll be seizing it and giving it to someone else to grow apples on?
 

hodj

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As you work through Ochem I homework, make sure you really, really, really learn Sn1, Sn2, E1 and E2 rxn mechanisms....its been 3 semesters since i took ochem I and I'm having to relearn all that shit. FML.
Pretty sure that all comes up after this test this week, so will do, and thanks for the heads up.
 

hodj

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Oh, he is awesome. But that shitisdisturbing.

I don't know if you'd notice his fetish if you didn't read a wide selection of his work spanning decades of his life. You hit it once a little bit in Stranger and it's like "Oh, he's making a point about social taboo". But then you hit it three or four more times in other books/stories and you gotta start thinking to yourself, "Ok Robert, exactly what the fuck are you trying to tell us... this isn't a social commentary anymore, is it?"

I've never regretted reading Heinlein though.
Heinlein was a man willing to go places few other authors would dare for his day, its true.
 

iannis

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Do you think when he begs off he's going back to Das Capital to try to find passages to paraphrase in reply to the questions?

I sorta think he does. Does he think this is an academic discussion?

I'm almost curious as to why the fuck he even bothers anymore. He's been doing this exact same thing foryears, and to my recollection he's never managed to convince anyone of jackshit who didn't already agree with him.
 

Quaid

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Chomsky already destroyed Kurzweil. From your postings, it would do you much better to crack open a few books than watch more youtube vids of guys with bling rings.
Chomsky sounds absurd in that interview. He should stick to politics.
 
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