MMA Thread

Tourney of has beens and never was.

Shane Carwin has thrown his name in the mix, asking to be an alternate for the Bellator tourney.

That picture of Mitrione is pure gold. Looks like guy in every random bar ever.

think i am going Fedor, Nelson, Bader. Chal

in JJ news...

Dude took drugs. They allowed him to get back into the sport the first time. The excuses these dudes give are insane. As an NCAA competitor, I knew I was 100% responsible for what I put into my body. There are free, readily available resources available to confirm your supplements are clean and the drug testers drill this into you when they give you the hotline numbers and websites.

Second-time drug offenders deserve a lifetime ban and should be sued for lots of moneys. Fuck Jon Jones for wasting his talent, ruining the sport, and cheating his competitors.

yamikazo said:

Dude took drugs. They allowed him to get back into the sport the first time. The excuses these dudes give are insane. As an NCAA competitor, I knew I was 100% responsible for what I put into my body. There are free, readily available resources available to confirm your supplements are clean and the drug testers drill this into you when they give you the hotline numbers and websites.

Second-time drug offenders deserve a lifetime ban and should be sued for lots of moneys. Fuck Jon Jones for wasting his talent, ruining the sport, and cheating his competitors.

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It really is inconceivable and incomprehensible at a certain point.

You take steroids as a baseball player and you might break a record you didn't deserve to. You take steroids as a fighter and you might break the other guy's body/brain for the rest of their life. Fuck JJ's.

Fight said:

It really is inconceivable and incomprehensible at a certain point.

You take steroids as a baseball player and you might break a record you didn't deserve to. You take steroids as a fighter and you might break the other guy's body/brain for the rest of their life. Fuck JJ's.

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I always felt steroids should have been allowed long ago.

What's the argument against it? It's not healthy for your or your opponent? Training to be a professional athlete isn't either, nor is doing MMA in general. The whole idea of having specialized trainers teach you how to inflict maximum damage and nutritionists telling you how to cut weight so you're 20pounds over the limit at fight night is neither "natural" nor "healthy". Why draw the line at steroid use? It seems arbitrary to me.

A lot of it seems to stem from an instinctive disgust of anything you inject in your blood (although you can take steroids in pills).

If you're really worried about people dying at 35 of heart failure, why not let doctors monitor athletes and give them some upper bound on how much exogenous testosterone they can inject. It can be just about optimization and keeping your level in the sweet range. This would lower the effect of age on performance and allow older athletes to still be relevant. It would also allow people without naturally high testosterone to compete. Many guys have morning TT in the 500-600 range and that's suboptimal to do intensive training. At least let them get that up to 1000+.

Razzes said:

A lot of it seems to stem from an instinctive disgust of anything you inject in your blood

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Well there is case in point right there!

Some aspiring fighter could read that and kill himself.

When it comes to heart changes, the Ejection Fraction number is only useful if you have a baseline from age 18 and can track it very regularly throughout your life looking for a bad trend. Health insurance isn't going to cover your monitoring idea, and your doctor isn't going to either. You've heard of "standard of care", black market steroid hobbies don't fall under it. That's not even getting into this whole idea of "safe steroid abuse". Which scientifically doesn't exist. Its a risk. No one is going to be forced to participate in a game where you sell health for performance. TRT was used as a cover for the health arms race and went bye bye already. NSAC cited costs were too high to monitor. Again, monitoring health, and monitoring drugs. Who pays for it? Not happening.

The only care a fighter should be receiving from their doctor with regard to steroid use is a psychiatric referral.

jayrebb said:

That's not even getting into this whole idea of "safe steroid abuse". Which scientifically doesn't exist. Its a risk. No one is going to be forced to participate in a game where you sell health for performance. TRT was used as a cover for the health arms race and went bye bye already.

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There is steroid abuse and there is TRT. TRT should be safe if you don't reach abnormal level of TT, right? I know they do routine blood check while on TRT, but I don't even think you need to monitor heart function. My point was that many athletes, even young athletes, would benefit from TRT without going beyond natural levels.

I get your point though that it is too easy to mask steroid abuse under the cover of TRT, makes sense.

As for steroid abuse, my interrogation is what kind of risk it truly poses, I was under the impression that the risk was overblown due to the stigma around steroids. I know many still think that people on steroids are all infertile for example.

I know the risk of adverse outcome will not be 0, but you are always going to trade health for performance in that sport. Think about weight cutting or even sparring (depending on the intensity, sparring can progressively cause brain damage). I think it was GSP who was saying he does less sparring now because he has seen the cumulative effect it has on other guys. I guess I'm just not sure whether steroid use crosses some important line regarding the health of the fighter.

This shit is governed by WADA. Allowing steroids and performance-enhancing drugs in any professional sport is a non-starter.

If steroids are good for sport, who are the high-level retired folks trying to get them in? Even Lance Armstrong doesn't advocate for steroids or doping.

I can see an argument where steroids are just supplements and there's a grey area between an illegal supplement and an illegal one. I could even accept an argument that said steroids are banned is because of antiquated science because things as mundane as food and massages (or the best PED of all, sleep) play just as much an impact on hormones and performance as HGH. To which I respond: at the end of the day, the rules are the rules, and everyone knows what they are; if you act outside of the rules and put shit into your body that is not permitted, fuck you. There is no way you accidentally take tainted shit.

Agreed, I wasn't saying that to excuse JJ actions.

Razzes said:

There is steroid abuse and there is TRT. TRT should be safe if you don't reach abnormal level of TT, right?

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https://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/guide/testosterone-replacement-therapy#2

What Are the Side Effects of Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

In general, testosterone replacement therapy is safe. It is associated with some side effects, including:

• Acne or oily skin
• Mild fluid retention
• Stimulation of prostate tissue, with perhaps some increased urination symptoms such as a decreased stream or frequency
• Increased risk of developing prostate abnormalities
• Breast enlargement
• Increased risk of blood clots
• Worsening of sleep apnea (a sleep disorder that results in frequent night time awakenings and daytime sleepiness)
• Decreased testicular size
• Increased aggression and mood swings
• May increase risk of heart attack and stroke

Laboratory abnormalities that can occur with hormone replacement include:

• Changes in cholesterol and lipid levels
• Increase in red blood cell count
• Decrease in sperm count, producing infertility (especially in younger men)
• Increase in PSA
  
  

What is your conclusion?

Zuffa Boxing LLC going to push this Pacman bout?...yikes.