Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kirun

Kirun

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Gravel said:
It's because consumers are fucking idiots and enable it though. Look at the people who paid hundreds of dollars to test AoC for them. It's been over a decade of companies releasing unfinished games in EA and then just never really getting around to finishing them, because they already got your money.
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No, I get it. And I'm guilty of it when it comes to non-MMOs. But, those usually have X number of hours of "finite" gameplay and are usually sub $30, without a monthly fee.

MMOs are an entirely different thing with entirely different gameplay expectations. For whatever reason, my brain just can't get passed the idea of paying to essentially beta test an MMO for developers that don't have the investors to keep the lights on, so instead reach out to the consumers to pay their bills.
 
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TJT

TJT

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I agree in principle but MNM doesn't cost you any money. They just allow people into the development process.
 
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I'll have to give this a go this weekend. do we still have our chracters from earlier tests? not that i got very far. do we know what races are in? i know the racial cities arn't in, but can we make like trolls and deep things this time?
 
Kriptini

Kriptini

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1753297055480.png


This is what night time looks like with the gamma slider cranked all the way up. Darkness is no longer a threat. The chuds have won.
 
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Control

Control

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Kirun said:
developers that don't have the investors to keep the lights on, so instead reach out to the consumers to pay their bills.
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I understand not wanting to pay for an incomplete game, but if players only pay for games that publishers fund, then they'll only get games that publishers fund. And if publishers are funding all the games you want to play, then no problem.

Aside from that, if you would play something and have fun, why would you have a problem paying for it? Customers directly funding developers that are making the game they want to play should really be the ideal situation for both sides. If the argument is "I'll pay for it when it's done", then that's fair of course, but then you'll only games from developers with the ability to self-fund the project, so either devs with previously successful games or hobby scale projects.
 
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TJT

TJT

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I generally do not participate in beta type stuff. For MNM I think it is interesting to see the system design they are going for and mess around. But I would never commit real time to it until release.

Spellblade, Inquisitor, or Wizard interest me the most though.
 
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TomServo

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TJT said:
I generally do not participate in beta type stuff. For MNM I think it is interesting to see the system design they are going for and mess around. But I would never commit real time to it until release.

Spellblade, Inquisitor, or Wizard interest me the most though.
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I'm fine for paying for early access if it has content I enjoy. I paid for early valheim and enjoyed the fuck out of that
 
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Kirun

Kirun

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Control said:
I understand not wanting to pay for an incomplete game, but if players only pay for games that publishers fund, then they'll only get games that publishers fund. And if publishers are funding all the games you want to play, then no problem.

Aside from that, if you would play something and have fun, why would you have a problem paying for it? Customers directly funding developers that are making the game they want to play should really be the ideal situation for both sides. If the argument is "I'll pay for it when it's done", then that's fair of course, but then you'll only games from developers with the ability to self-fund the project, so either devs with previously successful games or hobby scale projects.
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It's not my responsibility to pay for the mistakes of shitty developers, publishers, or money men. If you can't secure funding for your game, I guess it doesn't get made. We need to shed this expectation that it's ok to panhandle to your customer FFS. Make me a product worth buying and I'll support you/buy it. Or don't, but don't expect me to keep your lights on because publishers suck.

And if that means only shit games are being made, quit fucking buying them. I promise you that publishers will change their tune when they stop making money. Or the game industry can crash and recover. It has happened before, maybe it's time it happens again.
 
Control

Control

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Kirun said:
It's not my responsibility to pay for the mistakes of shitty developers, publishers, or money men. If you can't secure funding for your game, I guess it doesn't get made. We need to shed this expectation that it's ok to panhandle to your customer FFS. Make me a product worth buying and I'll support you/buy it. Or don't, but don't expect me to keep your lights on because publishers suck.

And if that means only shit games are being made, quit fucking buying them. I promise you that publishers will change their tune when they stop making money. Or the game industry can crash and recover. It has happened before, maybe it's time it happens again.
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Sure, like I said, no problem with that if you like what publishers are turning out. Well, also assuming that you think publishers are adding appropriate value for the cut that they take. Otherwise that money would be better off in the hands of developers. Also, even if you think publishers will change what they make based on buying habits, that means the games available to you are still based on what the "Average Gamer" will buy. Good plan if you're the average gamer I guess. I hope the likely market size for what you want to play is at least 7 digits (or hobby projects) or good fucking luck.
 
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TJT

TJT

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The sad state of the MMO genre is that we have to rely on diehard poopsocker enthusiasts designing games they KNOW are niche at best.

MMOs are really the hardest games possible to design.
 
Kithani

Kithani

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TJT said:
The sad state of the MMO genre is that we have to rely on diehard poopsocker enthusiasts designing games they KNOW are niche at best.

MMOs are really the hardest games possible to design.
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Maybe they’re just shitty games in general

John Cena Omg GIF
 
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Gravel

Gravel

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Man, it's no wonder I never got into this. Started a shaman. Read the guild note and it gives me some vague directions. Cool, into the city I go (should also mention it's night so I can't see shit). Oh, there's a sign with landmarks. Well fuck, the vague direction I was given isn't on the sign. I'll just keep running. Eventually, after passing about 4 unhelpful directions signs, I find one that has the area I'm looking for. Follow it and find another one and...the area I'm looking for isn't on this one. What the fuck?

Start wandering around, getting lost, eventually I just randomly find the area I'm looking for. Cool. And I can see a monk guild master in the distance so I go there. I find enchanter, a summoner one and maybe one other one. Then it just goes off into some random other part of the city.

This is starting to get super frustrating. Eventually I figure out that that's some kind of hub area for guild masters and 1000 yards in the opposite direction is the building with mine. Hand in my letter, guild master doesn't say shit for 5 seconds...what is going on? Eventually he responds. 30 minutes in and I haven't accomplished shit, I don't know how to get back to an area to fight mobs, and I'm just frustrated.

I'm glad you designed a super large city, but this is terrible game design. I'd get less lost in a real city in a foreign country.
 
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Control

Control

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Gravel said:
Man, it's no wonder I never got into this. Started a shaman. Read the guild note and it gives me some vague directions. Cool, into the city I go (should also mention it's night so I can't see shit). Oh, there's a sign with landmarks. Well fuck, the vague direction I was given isn't on the sign. I'll just keep running. Eventually, after passing about 4 unhelpful directions signs, I find one that has the area I'm looking for. Follow it and find another one and...the area I'm looking for isn't on this one. What the fuck?

Start wandering around, getting lost, eventually I just randomly find the area I'm looking for. Cool. And I can see a monk guild master in the distance so I go there. I find enchanter, a summoner one and maybe one other one. Then it just goes off into some random other part of the city.

This is starting to get super frustrating. Eventually I figure out that that's some kind of hub area for guild masters and 1000 yards in the opposite direction is the building with mine. Hand in my letter, guild master doesn't say shit for 5 seconds...what is going on? Eventually he responds. 30 minutes in and I haven't accomplished shit, I don't know how to get back to an area to fight mobs, and I'm just frustrated.

I'm glad you designed a super large city, but this is terrible game design. I'd get less lost in a real city in a foreign country.
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Sounds like eq to me!
Hammer Time GIF
 
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