I think a mentoring system similar to eq2's would be a better way to handle it. Iirc it was like a 5% bonus per person mentoring or something like that.
Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
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Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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Goonsquad Officer
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yea a mentor system like eq2 coh etc basically solve all problems, let your little bro hang out and play the game with you. hell make him level 'faster' than he would at his level so he's not falling behind the whole time.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Nirgon
Log Wizard
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If I can be the resident immersionist for a second
Sometimes one move up in a career is harder and/or takes longer than another
Personally I like how a K/D ratio is part of these games, with people who have lower ratios making it to max level in a (sometimes much) longer time
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I feel like this analogy is coming close to jumping the shark for the Nirgon character lol
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idk has he said dumber shit before? Yes. is it a little too on the nose defending every retarded decision made by retards? Also yes
Del
Vyemm Raider
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It does have hell levels starting at level 20. It still feels overall faster to level in this than it did in EQ.
Is there anything about old school MMORPGs that you guys actually liked? Because it seems like you just want a reskinned retail WoW.
Is there anything about old school MMORPGs that you guys actually liked? Because it seems like you just want a reskinned retail WoW.
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Nirgon
Log Wizard
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Oh yeah? please find a post of me in this thread coming off "really mad" or complaining about this game. I'll wait
your Alzheimer's is getting to you, you boomer faggot
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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How does one get 'immersed' in a game world on a 2D fucking screen with a chat box 30 years after the MMORPG genre began?
Please teach me to be this much of a simpleton.
'Immersion' is such a crutch nonsense argument too. A system makes no sense from a gameplay perspective? Don't worry, it adds to 'immersion'! Luckily nobody can actually define it and everyone's definition relies on their own perception. Sick. You can ask 'how are hell levels immersive?' and some absolute fanboy goon will respond 'just like real life, sometimes job advancement steps take longer than others!'.
I swear to god if the devs made you spam a hotkey rhythmically to chew food, there would be Monsters & Memories fans praising the immersiveness of the system.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Reminds me of a comment on Shawn's latest stream, where he was talking about how long a boat ride took and he proudly proclaimed the world was so large, that it'd take 4 days in game to complete. I believe the day/night cycle is about 1 hour in real time, so you're looking at 4 hours on a boat for whatever this journey was.
I'm sure on paper this sounds amazing, like a super epic journey. If you were reading about it in a book, it'd feel immense (although, I have to laugh at how ASoIaF basically did this with Tyrion and it was hilariously bad).
In a video game though? You've basically just told the player to alt tab out for 4 hours and do something that's not your video game. But worse, you're also telling them that they need to be sure to check back in to get off the boat. It's a complete lack of respect for the player's time. (Side note here, this is also why sitting and medding for 5 minutes after a fight isn't a thing anymore, especially in current year. It's a lot easier now than it was in 1999 to just disengage from the game entirely between fights, which once again, means you're not actually playing the game.)
There's a reason games abandoned these types of systems, and it's not because everyone's a "carebear." It's because you want people to actually play the game, not spend hours travelling back and forth from camp site to camp site. If you're not actually engaged in the fun part of the game, killing shit, then what's the point? Sure, you can say exploring, but you know what this game also makes impossible? Exploring. Because travel takes so long, and the punishment for death is so high, why the fuck would I ever want to explore a place off the beaten path? Doing so means my risk of death is high, losing hours of exp, as well as then making me do a naked corpse run where I've got even less tools to get back to the same area.
It also encourages "safe" gameplay. "Oh, do I want to try killing that camp over there that looks super interesting? Ah fuck, no, it's got 3 mobs there that I can't split. Can't even run away because they removed another quality of life feature in leashing, so if I get in trouble, the mobs run faster than me and will just pummel me into shit. I'll just go kill some more blue con safe mobs and not risk it."
I get what they're going for. There's a sense of accomplishment for overcoming the hard obstacle, whether that's travelling really far or conquering that hard camp. I'm just wondering why they decided to re-implement all the tedium it took two decades to get rid of as opposed to figuring out what what actually made a game like Everquest fun. I can tell you it sure as fuck wasn't taking 30 minutes crossing a zone while running at a slug's pace.
I'm sure on paper this sounds amazing, like a super epic journey. If you were reading about it in a book, it'd feel immense (although, I have to laugh at how ASoIaF basically did this with Tyrion and it was hilariously bad).
In a video game though? You've basically just told the player to alt tab out for 4 hours and do something that's not your video game. But worse, you're also telling them that they need to be sure to check back in to get off the boat. It's a complete lack of respect for the player's time. (Side note here, this is also why sitting and medding for 5 minutes after a fight isn't a thing anymore, especially in current year. It's a lot easier now than it was in 1999 to just disengage from the game entirely between fights, which once again, means you're not actually playing the game.)
There's a reason games abandoned these types of systems, and it's not because everyone's a "carebear." It's because you want people to actually play the game, not spend hours travelling back and forth from camp site to camp site. If you're not actually engaged in the fun part of the game, killing shit, then what's the point? Sure, you can say exploring, but you know what this game also makes impossible? Exploring. Because travel takes so long, and the punishment for death is so high, why the fuck would I ever want to explore a place off the beaten path? Doing so means my risk of death is high, losing hours of exp, as well as then making me do a naked corpse run where I've got even less tools to get back to the same area.
It also encourages "safe" gameplay. "Oh, do I want to try killing that camp over there that looks super interesting? Ah fuck, no, it's got 3 mobs there that I can't split. Can't even run away because they removed another quality of life feature in leashing, so if I get in trouble, the mobs run faster than me and will just pummel me into shit. I'll just go kill some more blue con safe mobs and not risk it."
I get what they're going for. There's a sense of accomplishment for overcoming the hard obstacle, whether that's travelling really far or conquering that hard camp. I'm just wondering why they decided to re-implement all the tedium it took two decades to get rid of as opposed to figuring out what what actually made a game like Everquest fun. I can tell you it sure as fuck wasn't taking 30 minutes crossing a zone while running at a slug's pace.
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All those old quirks from classic EQ were interdependent and only together , all together, made the magic happen. Yes you need long travel times and 4 hour boat rides to spam the globe because only with that will you be REWARDED by exploring and finding those "hidden gem" leveling grounds that you and your crew can stake out.
Wtf is the point of cyclops island in OOT if you just put a teleporter there straight from the noob yard and every tom dick and harry is there too?
Wtf is the point of cyclops island in OOT if you just put a teleporter there straight from the noob yard and every tom dick and harry is there too?
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Every little thing you may find "tedious" is a opportunity for someone else to differentiate themselves in a old skool world.
You are too grown and "can't do 4 hour grind sessions"? Good, will make my E-dick feel bigger when I stride past your noob ass that is 8 levels behind me.
You are too grown and "can't do 4 hour grind sessions"? Good, will make my E-dick feel bigger when I stride past your noob ass that is 8 levels behind me.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Except most places in EQ were dead. No one was ever grinding in OOT until they put the ring of the ancients there. Everyone was in fucking lower guk, or sebilis. Because players will flock to the path of least resistance.
I'm glad you found a game to flex on your ability to poop sock though. It's quite impressive.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Perhaps there was reward for ‘exploring the unknown and finding hidden gems’ for a few very early adopters, but none of that existed for the tens of thousands of players that followed. You’re making arguments that apply to less than 1% of the EverQuest subscriber base. The other 99% who subscribed for YEARS just engaged with ‘wtb port to SRo’ in EC tunnel for Lguk groups. For the vast majority EverQuest had nothing to do with ‘the reward of exploration’, and everything to do with appealing group gameplay, loot reward systems, the lore of the world, and perhaps most importantly a unique online social platform.
Flobee
Vyemm Raider
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That's simply not true if you're talking 1999 classic. I remember tons of folks doing inefficient stuff because they didn't know better and it was fun. Just because the game is solved now doesn't mean it always was. Granted in 2025 that solving will happen a lot faster, so not sure how you recreate that, but I'm interested to see how their attempts work.
Discounting the value of the "early adopters" solving things is, imo, short sighted. Choosing to streamline everything because "they'll solve it all anyway" is pretty foolish and lead to the dry boring gameplay we get in games today