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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
Hatorade
A nice asshole.
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You WILL do the 11 hour plane of air raid and you will like it!
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Del
Potato del Grande
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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- i was on the only server in eq to have "forced" rotations in kunark-PoP on the rathe...
- a decade later i played on eqmac, the same era, no instances...
- i've played p99 raid scene, velious era, no instances
- i've played lame ass MMOs that have global/world bosses that the whole server zergs... dont even want to touch how lame that concept is
i believe these examples represent the only things can happen with open world and no instance raids. TLDR: they all end up with an elitist culture that gatekeeps
rathe - the solo top guild forced a rotation that the GMs agreed with somehow and it stuck around for years. this guild, blood of the spider, was the first to wake the sleeper and it wasnt even fast - they just had zero competition. whoever becomes the top guild first in a rotation will get the harder raids done faster and will forever be ahead of the pack. rest of the server was fighting over scraps in ntov while this guild was raiding VT. im not joking, the rathe was a huge outlier on the eq raid scene because of these forced rotations. it was not beneficial for the server in the long run, no bottom guilds could ever retain people they just went to the top guild.
eqmac - open world, almost 0 GM presence... the top guilds just trained guilds at choke points in progression and people warped around, even midnight raids werent safe
p99 - no real training but yea you all understand what happens there with poop socking and bat phones - and the GM lawyering
takp - guess ill throw this in there, in this case forced rotations - but forced rotations on 100% known/strategized content isnt a good example... though besides quarm/TLP type instances this is the best (for classic EQ)
so which social construct are they trying to implement here at MNM with open world raids?
*edit i guess counter argument is all the other eq servers in classic era and the cool dps races and somewhat gentlemanly culture. that whole idea is torn down in this internet era, they are not going to bring the gentlemen-game out in a 2025 MMO.
- a decade later i played on eqmac, the same era, no instances...
- i've played p99 raid scene, velious era, no instances
- i've played lame ass MMOs that have global/world bosses that the whole server zergs... dont even want to touch how lame that concept is
i believe these examples represent the only things can happen with open world and no instance raids. TLDR: they all end up with an elitist culture that gatekeeps
rathe - the solo top guild forced a rotation that the GMs agreed with somehow and it stuck around for years. this guild, blood of the spider, was the first to wake the sleeper and it wasnt even fast - they just had zero competition. whoever becomes the top guild first in a rotation will get the harder raids done faster and will forever be ahead of the pack. rest of the server was fighting over scraps in ntov while this guild was raiding VT. im not joking, the rathe was a huge outlier on the eq raid scene because of these forced rotations. it was not beneficial for the server in the long run, no bottom guilds could ever retain people they just went to the top guild.
eqmac - open world, almost 0 GM presence... the top guilds just trained guilds at choke points in progression and people warped around, even midnight raids werent safe
p99 - no real training but yea you all understand what happens there with poop socking and bat phones - and the GM lawyering
takp - guess ill throw this in there, in this case forced rotations - but forced rotations on 100% known/strategized content isnt a good example... though besides quarm/TLP type instances this is the best (for classic EQ)
so which social construct are they trying to implement here at MNM with open world raids?
*edit i guess counter argument is all the other eq servers in classic era and the cool dps races and somewhat gentlemanly culture. that whole idea is torn down in this internet era, they are not going to bring the gentlemen-game out in a 2025 MMO.
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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Well it's not a rogue, because picklocks isn't in game yet LoL
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Lambourne
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Just checked this out, spent two hours running around the city finding these random NPCs for the starter bard quest. Got a shitty reward for it, just like real EQ lol. Hope they dress the city up some more, it feels really empty and oversized. Bit like those cities on Luclin, where's it all huge buildings and ramps everywhere but it feels desolate at the same time.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Anyone considered that the possibility that the affect that instanced raiding has on the server outweighs the affect it has on the raiders? Flooding raid gear into the economy dramatically decreases the value of group level content. While open-world competition may not be ideal for the top 5% of the server that is competing with their poopsocks its probably better for everyone else. Obviously this forum is over-represented with that 5% but as a developer its not ideal to focus purely on that.
I'm curious to see how they handle balancing this but as someone who doesn't really love raiding I'm hopeful they stay strong on this point. 1-2 group content is, IMO, a lot more fun than raiding and I'd like it to be relevant regardless of how that is accomplished. I know there is an argument that instancing allows a much larger percentage of the population to access raid content, but I tend to think that keeping it more exclusive has massive benefits on the server community. If you're spending 40+ hours a week in-game you should be able to afk at the bank and everyone knows that. Part of the appeal in MMOs
I'm curious to see how they handle balancing this but as someone who doesn't really love raiding I'm hopeful they stay strong on this point. 1-2 group content is, IMO, a lot more fun than raiding and I'd like it to be relevant regardless of how that is accomplished. I know there is an argument that instancing allows a much larger percentage of the population to access raid content, but I tend to think that keeping it more exclusive has massive benefits on the server community. If you're spending 40+ hours a week in-game you should be able to afk at the bank and everyone knows that. Part of the appeal in MMOs
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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To your first point, I think that greatly depends on the itemization of that group content, the amount of loot available per raid instance interaction, and at what interval that interaction is able to take place. It'd be a simple task to put highly compelling utility, situational, and status items deep within small group dungeons that the raid community will always desire. It'd also be simple to throttle the total number of drops available to a raid force. If a target takes 30 people to defeat, and only drops 2 pieces of loot from its table, and you can only fight it once a week, it's gonna take a long while to 'flood the economy' with that target's loot. Even if there’s10 guilds with that target on farm status. Hell, perhaps one of its drops is a quest item that requires you to get the other pieces from a group dungeon.
I also don't think developers should focus purely on the raid game, but I also would be sad to see them just lazily plunk dragons with a million HP in the far corners of random zones.
Personally, I'd rather see in-game uber-status at the bank be attached to skillful or tactical achievement rather than how much time one spends in game. I'll never forget my homie's strut through Ironforge with the server-first Ashkandi. We smashed our faces against that encounter for weeks and ended up with world 5th. Hanging Nefarian's head in Stormwind was fucking was awesome.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Enjoy that one while it lasts lol. Tradable Lvl 1 lifetap proc feels like it’ll get nerfed into the Stone Age if it’s anything like EQ!
Phat lewtz though. What level mob did you get it off of?
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Think it was red to 9 so I would guess 12-13ish. Cemetary in Nightharbor during day. Chunked the healer when they got hit, but I was able to tank it at 7 no problem. Proc is only 5 damage, but I wouldn't be shocked it proc rate was adjusted. Feels good though
Valorath
Vyemm Raider
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Awesome find! Love stuff like this. Where did it come from?
My group is having fun - really excited about EA now. We’ve done all of Wyrmsbane, though havent got to farm the last boss for long yet. We’ve done both the goblin and ashira sides of Tel’Ekir, though mostly just the entry stuff. Last night we went to the ancient crypt. Just stayed on the early stuff, couple of our guys are a 2 full levels behind the rest, so didn’t go deep. We all leveled up last night though, so should be ready to go deeper in TK or the crypt tonight.
Having different places available for good exp farm has been nice too. Something’s camped, we just shift gears and head somewhere else. There also seems to be plenty of the over-world content to keep players occupied.
To be fair we’re still low and haven’t explored anything past Night Harbor, Shaded Dunes, and Sugreet Strand. Going to check out the next zones this weekend I think. May check out this quarry area tonight - place is jam packed with fire beetles and goblins. Poked around the edges last night after everyone logged. This SS is from exploring trying to find the goblins outside Tel’Ekir the other day. Fell off this tower (of course), and had to petition to get my corpse cause i couldn’t survive the fall to get back to it.
My group is having fun - really excited about EA now. We’ve done all of Wyrmsbane, though havent got to farm the last boss for long yet. We’ve done both the goblin and ashira sides of Tel’Ekir, though mostly just the entry stuff. Last night we went to the ancient crypt. Just stayed on the early stuff, couple of our guys are a 2 full levels behind the rest, so didn’t go deep. We all leveled up last night though, so should be ready to go deeper in TK or the crypt tonight.
Having different places available for good exp farm has been nice too. Something’s camped, we just shift gears and head somewhere else. There also seems to be plenty of the over-world content to keep players occupied.
To be fair we’re still low and haven’t explored anything past Night Harbor, Shaded Dunes, and Sugreet Strand. Going to check out the next zones this weekend I think. May check out this quarry area tonight - place is jam packed with fire beetles and goblins. Poked around the edges last night after everyone logged. This SS is from exploring trying to find the goblins outside Tel’Ekir the other day. Fell off this tower (of course), and had to petition to get my corpse cause i couldn’t survive the fall to get back to it.
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Cemetery in NH. Go in gate follow left wall, there is a bat + 1 spawn in a little nook just before ramp up. Spawns there, Sanguine bat. Only saw him once but we didnt sit there too terribly long either. I assume it only spawns during daytime, as at night its all higher level skeletons
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
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Given that named mobs can literally drop nothing, I can't wait for raid mobs to drop nothing too, RNG It's amazing fun! (I know it won't work that way...)
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There is a GOOD amount of content in this game that people will out level without ever seeing. Presenting not only a friction point for people of appropriate level but from higher level people to as they come in and stomp the content for guildies / alts / themselves. Putting an even greater pressure on people not to experience the game as it comes but to power level ASAP and pubstomp people.
They need a way to somewhat limit this, maybe drop bonuses when the group getting the kill are in the right level range to incentivize early exploration and trial and error, I hated the "Greying out" that happened in EQ2 though.
Possibly a "turn off XP" option as well.
Part of me wants to "Wait and See" with this point but another part of me understands that having the system in place to do something with this and NOT using it is better than not having any system in place.
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A BIG part of why people seem to not mind on not having "instances" is that they think that the "Word of Mouth" solution to camps will last forever. This concept is just won't last in the internet age.
Wiki's, item aggregation sites, spoiler sites...ect all exist today.
The "Super Secret" camp that people keep in their back pocket only lasts about a month or so at max, and with pre-release / early access and wipes...those "Secret" locations and camps start dwindling pretty fast.
Grain Cellar, Fight Club, the "ULTRA SECRET" dungeon in NH..are all really locked down by one thing, ignorance and once ignorance takes a hit, people will flock to the "Best Camps" asap.
When I can sort a wiki table or a spreadsheet of all drops by class and level...
Pasteton
Vyemm Raider
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lot of wasted breath in here. They aren’t gonna be doing massive raid zones. Again, imagine eq at release . No planes just some stuff like vox and naggy. People who think end game means raids won’t like this game, full stop. Go ask nick or Shawn about it in a stream. If you read thru the evasiveness this is what they’re saying
GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 8,019
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They said "Expeditions" and come on now, changing the name from "Raids" to "Expeditions" does what?
The effect is the same, "Challenging End-game Content", the only debate is how many people will be involved.
The statement I heard is, "You'll have to be super prepared, once you go, there is no coming back..." type stuff...SOUNDS LIKE RAIDS...