Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

I dunno man. He was caving regularly. It's quite easy to ignore the morons if you are not taking their money. Easiest way is to not stream and just work.

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Alright well I'll admit I was wrong if something otherwise comes out. If it is true, I would have done the same thing.

Kirun said:

So it sounds like Nick is being positioned as the built-in cope for when the game flops? That way, instead of acknowledging the realities of the MMO market, people can just fall back on the idea that a "TRUE" EverQuest successor has somehow still never been tried before..

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I posted this hours before Nick was officially "off the project".

Now we're at the stage of grief where it looks like we're building toward the, "a TRUE EQ successor has just never been tried yet!!!" magnum opus.

Nirgon said:

Alright well I'll admit I was wrong if something otherwise comes out

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IDK, the last 4 weeks we heard nothing but ravid idiots demanding their ideas be implemented.

Kirun said:

I posted this hours before Nick was officially "off the project".

Now we're at the stage of grief where it looks like we're building toward the, "a TRUE EQ successor has just never been tried yet!!!" magnum opus.

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Holy shit i get it now. They’re trying to be a true EverQuest successor!

Shawn must be railing crushed pills and Nick got fired in the parking lot.

Like I said, this would be the kind of person you'd be catering to

Nirgon said:

Like I said, this would be the kind of person you'd be catering to

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Why would you care? You're just a casual gamer dad now, bro. Your hardcore days are over.

GuardianX said:

ALL HAIL KIRUN

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vegetoeeVegetoee said:

The way they are handling his departure atm is bad. Like PR disaster bad. Sean has to chill, or he risks the entire project tbh.

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What is unfortunate for them is I don't think Shawn or probably any of their staff are necessarily use to being in these types of administrative situations. Most of these guys have been on teams or worked as designers and they may have experienced management address these situations but its different when you're the guy. I also think people are going to be less forgiving the deeper it gets into beta and closer to their release. The challenge will ultimately be their willingness (or ability) to sort through the noise. Many games have caved prior to launch and even shortly after launch to the wrong voices who were unfortunately advocating very selfishly rather than either sticking to their vision or listening to those who had legitimate concerns.

Flobee said:

I've watched far more Zukan, Shawn, and Goblin streams personally. For no other reason than when I had time for such things they were the only ones streaming MnM stuff /shrug

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Also the fact that Nick wasn't even streaming until about 5 months ago. Shawn's streams are usually the best for overall information and direction the game is going. Nick was the place to go for class information, though. Hopefully he gets a good replacement.

Kirun said:

Why would you care? You're just a casual gamer dad now, bro. Your hardcore days are over.

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I guess I live in a paid for house with 2 paid for cars in the drive way but still vote in favor of the common man too. I'm just set in my ways I guess.

Having real games that challenge people and build meaningful relationships is important to me.

Like everything else, the drool cups who chase cheap thrills and spew bile seem to want to destroy that too. You shoulda seen the horrible beak demon that came after me on social media the other day or two ago. Funny when ya think about it.

Oh god, did he break himself with his own troll? Should we start calling him NirgSox?

Khane said:

Oh god, did he break himself with his own troll? Should we start calling him NirgSox?

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Can you elaborate a little more, I'm staying the course as far as I can tell. I admit the trolling parts vs serious parts when pressed tbh.

Quaid said:

I went to their DC to check it out and Shawn is being super fucking weird. Like just slow the chat speed for a few days and be done with it. He's in there just generally threatening everyone with vague barbs if they talk too much about it. He needs to step away immediately.

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Sir do you mean to tell me that a former EQ dev who moved to Europe to live as a hermit under the German welfare state and started a garage-box recreation of a 1999 elf simulator is… behaving weirdly?

Nirgon said:

Can you elaborate a little more, I'm staying the course as far as I can tell. I admit the trolling parts vs serious parts when pressed tbh.

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Don't even have a paid for garage at your paid for house for your 2 paid for cars. SMH.

Khane said:

Don't even have a paid for garage at your paid for house for your 2 paid for cars. SMH.

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I have a 2 car garage but the truck is a tight fit, and the other side has card board boxes I've been throwing away one recycling pick up at a time.

Come to think of it, I need to just throw all that shit in the truck this Saturday and spend the 10$ to be rid of it all at once. I do wanna get the cars in before the yellow cloud of pollen jizz crap comes.

Anyways, dont let me derail this memoriam to Nick who was someone who actually said "I'll do it" instead of sitting around complaining. That takes an immense amount of drive and commitment, he truly loved what he was doing. I would highly doubt we get another person who would seriously listen and set out to make a true good classic style MMO again in our lifetime.

Muligan said:

What is unfortunate for them is I don't think Shawn or probably any of their staff are necessarily use to being in these types of administrative situations. Most of these guys have been on teams or worked as designers and they may have experienced management address these situations but its different when you're the guy. I also think people are going to be less forgiving the deeper it gets into beta and closer to their release. The challenge will ultimately be their willingness (or ability) to sort through the noise. Many games have caved prior to launch and even shortly after launch to the wrong voices who were unfortunately advocating very selfishly rather than either sticking to their vision or listening to those who had legitimate concerns.

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I think that framing gives them a little too much of a pass, honestly.

Plenty of developers make the jump from design roles into leadership positions and Shawn has been in a leadership role before. Plus, that's part of building an actual studio. If anything, that's when accountability matters more, not less. Being "new" to administrative responsibility doesn't really explain or excuse poor communication, lack of direction, or inconsistent decision-making, especially this far into development.

The "sorting through the noise" argument gets used a lot, but it can also become a convenient shield. Not all criticism is just selfish players asking for handouts. A lot of it(especially in MnM's case)has been pretty consistent and rooted in legitimate concerns about design cohesion, pacing, and whether the game actually understands what made older MMOs work in the first place. Writing that off as "noise" risks ignoring the exact feedback that could help them course-correct. At the same time, sticking to a "vision" only works if the vision is solid and clearly communicated. "Don't listen to players" isn't inherently a strength. It really depends entirely on whether the team has demonstrated they shouldn't listen. Right now, I'm not sure they've earned that level of confidence.

And yeah, people will be less forgiving as beta progresses. Expectations go up as you get closer to release. But that's also why these concerns matter now. If the foundation isn't strong, doubling down and blaming "the wrong voices" later just turns into the same post-launch cope we've seen over and over.

Nicks stream is up with just a picture of a crushed can by the curb.

Rough day I’m sure.

bolok said:

Nicks stream is up with just a picture of a crushed can by the curb.

Rough day I’m sure.

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Whelp that answers some questions at least. Sad to see though.