Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Amycus · Friday at 10:30 PM

I’ve had no issues except the insane lvls of input/chat/trade/everhting lag in Night Harbor. I don’t know what they did several weeks ago, but when I first got in there were like 250 people in NH at nearly all times, with zero lag. Then it just became a disaster, regardless of how many were in the zone.

Del · Saturday at 4:23 AM

I was triboxing on my desktop from 2017 without issues besides the memory leak bug. The game is mostly CPU bound.

Amycus said:
I’ve had no issues except the insane lvls of input/chat/trade/everhting lag in Night Harbor. I don’t know what they did several weeks ago, but when I first got in there were like 250 people in NH at nearly all times, with zero lag. Then it just became a disaster, regardless of how many were in the zone.

It's an issue with the inventory expansion that they did. Expanding player inventory through regional banks and the mount inventory system. It needs some heavy optimization. If they can't get it optimized by EA I wouldn't be surprised if they removed mounts until they can get it figured out, which would be unfortunate.

Flobee · Saturday at 7:50 AM

Unfortunately for my near term productivity I got a PVP only beta invite. Took minimal fussing and got it running on Linux pretty easy. Level 2 paladin LFG!

Pasteton · Saturday at 12:04 PM

Mind sharing your process of getting it working on Linux? I’ve just been getting white screens on steam deck unless I use the old launcher with lutris

Flobee · Saturday at 12:11 PM

Pasteton said:
Mind sharing your process of getting it working on Linux? I’ve just been getting white screens on steam deck unless I use the old launcher with lutris

.deb appimage worked out of the box for me on Ubuntu for launcher at least. Used their recommended config from there. Here is the wiki and I'll spoiler a discord link to a post I used to get umu to work properly. Only real issue I had was a file repair from patcher was needed because I couldn't see character or load game at initial install.

MnM on Linux - Monsters and Memories Wiki

monstersandmemories.miraheze.org

I'm sure steam deck is a bit different but I bet a little digging in Discord will pull up someone who's gotten it working

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

Kirun · Saturday at 1:11 PM

Del said:
It's an issue with the inventory expansion that they did. Expanding player inventory through regional banks and the mount inventory system. It needs some heavy optimization. If they can't get it optimized by EA I wouldn't be surprised if they removed mounts until they can get it figured out, which would be unfortunate.

LOL. Did they do the Diablo 4 Jr. Coder thing?

Muligan · Saturday at 1:47 PM

Will be traveling this summer so hopefully they’ll have it settled on Mac. Last I heard the recent update broke it on Crossover but honestly hadn’t looked very closely into it since I wouldn’t need it until late June

Rael · Sunday at 4:45 AM

forehead said:
The fact that this game can't run on a potato is a pretty big letdown. I don't mind the low poly look but what's the point if I can't play it on my 2012 laptop? Looking forward to the game, but man, there should be zero lag.

They're using Unity HD Render Pipeline with fancy water shaders etc. The char models being low poly has very little benefit when you consider that amount of overhead.

jayrebb · Sunday at 5:52 AM

Rael said:
They're using Unity HD Render Pipeline with fancy water shaders etc. The char models being low poly has very little benefit when you consider that amount of overhead.

I've heard from some people who examined it (decrypted the network traffic) that it can't scale. Think this is a Vanguard situation where there will be instability and issues throughout. But hope they are proven wrong.

Quaid · Sunday at 9:06 AM

jayrebb said:
I've heard from some people who examined it (decrypted the network traffic) that it can't scale. Think this is a Vanguard situation where there will be instability and issues throughout. But hope they are proven wrong.

This doesn't sound real. Performance was pretty rock solid before they fiddled with the inventory stuff. Not counting when there were 400 folks in a zone, of course.

Kithani · Sunday at 10:16 AM

Rael said:
They're using Unity HD Render Pipeline with fancy water shaders etc. The char models being low poly has very little benefit when you consider that amount of overhead.

Well thank God we have fancy ass water shaders, wouln't want the water to look like 2004-era

Flobee · Sunday at 10:57 AM

You can make an argument that cramming Unity into an MMO can and will have inevitable performance issues, but I don't think blaming water shaders makes any sense. Shaders, by definition, run on the GPU and I would be very surprised if any performance issues are coming from player GPU usage. If that were the case it would almost certainly be something poorly written and very fixable

Far more likely it's something related to server client communication surrounding the changes to the inventory system if that is around when it started. Imagine accidentally having your server communicating entire inventory array (or probably DB table in their case) continually for every player in a zone on server tick or something similar. I haven't experienced the lag referenced here so dunno if it's a server or client thing by feel.

I would also be surprised if packet sniffing is going to give you enough information to make the sort of claim from above but I'd be curious to hear an explanation on that

Pasteton · Sunday at 12:04 PM

The hell with mounts honestly. This is such a flavor and minor thing, that can wait for well after release if removing that and mount inventories fix the lag issues.

jayrebb · Sunday at 10:31 PM

Quaid said:
This doesn't sound real. Performance was pretty rock solid before they fiddled with the inventory stuff. Not counting when there were 400 folks in a zone, of course.

Not exactly a secret the game has performance issues. See Shawn's stream stating about as much, and the numerous patch notes with memory leaks referenced.

GuardianX · Monday at 10:35 AM

Man I wanna write so much but I just don't have the energy.

This game as a psuedo "Beer and Gaming" game with friends is okay, outside of that it's becoming disappointing.

Lag issues been goin on for about a month now, they made a change to charm where some weird issue happened where they had 2 versions of the spell (and other spells) being dished out to different zones on the same server, now NH and a couple other zones are just fucked with other zones just randomly experiencing 2-5 second halts.

Class balance is...just not existent and class direction is currently up for an entire overhaul 2 months before EA. I dunno who was responsible for that shit show of an outcome but man, the whole system was like "Lets copy off the guy next to us for the test but not look like we are copying" and the result is that you failed the test anyhow even though you cheated.

Combat is already slow and boring and supposedly they want to make it take LONGER? Man, on my ele with mana regen I was getting like 1.5 casts per mob in group...can't wait to get the same but still not kill the mob. Started playing a rogue and a fighter a bit after the bard charm nerfs (that were fucking pointless aside from neutering the only way of soloing that a bard has) and holy shit is it maddening to be time locked to abilities. Like they want this slow as shit TTK but no one else got the memo, I'm still fighting CONSTANTLY but now bound to super long cool-downs for threat on my fighter and on my rogue it's damage is basically all white damage.

Flobee said:
I would also be surprised if packet sniffing is going to give you enough information to make the sort of claim from above but I'd be curious to hear an explanation on that

Show MNM is 100% going to be a thing and, from what I understand, already was a thing. Unity is so open that you may as well not have an obfuscation layer. It's so open that a dude vibe-coded a sense heading and location reader app and posted it on reddit.

Botting will be out of control on EA (people already made simple screen reading bots), hacking will be out of control (the pre-hacked issue of unity). I'm GUESSING because of how track works...that ShowMNM will have zone wide tracking.

Pasteton · Monday at 12:01 PM

yup I think just the level of abuse of botting and hackery that an indie mmo on unity is vulnerable to is eventually a game breaking thing, even more so in one where resource competition is a main part of the gameplay. It’s the main reason , along with lag issues, why I’ve been thinking this game has maybe 6-12 months of shelf life after release. If there was some magic wand they could use to remove all the hacking and botting and net code jank I think they could actually persist a good deal longer if their main battles were just class balance and content expansion.

Tol · Monday at 2:10 PM

Pasteton said:
yup I think just the level of abuse of botting and hackery that an indie mmo on unity is vulnerable to is eventually a game breaking thing, even more so in one where resource competition is a main part of the gameplay. It’s the main reason , along with lag issues, why I’ve been thinking this game has maybe 6-12 months of shelf life after release. If there was some magic wand they could use to remove all the hacking and botting and net code jank I think they could actually persist a good deal longer if their main battles were just class balance and content expansion.

The biggest paradox of classic eq that I can't figure out is that the entire playerbase basically brays about how the inaccessibility and lack of features like a map are selling points, but then in-game literally everyone I meet is using map overlays, wiki spawn guides, showEQ, logging their alt accounts/guildmates for buff bots, and so on to do everything in their power to make it play like a modern day MMO with minimal inconveniences. Its like forums and genchat reality and what the players say they want and love is a completely different thing than how anyone actually ever plays the game.

If they aren't, then someone in their guild group doing the pulling/effort almost always is.

jayrebb · Monday at 2:23 PM

GuardianX said:
Combat is already slow and boring and supposedly they want to make it take LONGER? Man, on my ele with mana regen I was getting like 1.5 casts per mob in group...can't wait to get the same but still not kill the mob. Started playing a rogue and a fighter a bit after the bard charm nerfs (that were fucking pointless aside from neutering the only way of soloing that a bard has) and holy shit is it maddening to be time locked to abilities. Like they want this slow as shit TTK but no one else got the memo, I'm still fighting CONSTANTLY but now bound to super long cool-downs for threat on my fighter and on my rogue it's damage is basically all white damage.

GCD on melees needs to come down to 1.75s from 2.5s. It's just too clunky and classes weren't designed for long GCDs. Example Archer Flurry of Arrows loses an entire tick and reset on it's Quickshot due to the GCD change. Also Exposing Shot is no longer worth the cast for the same reason, DPS loss due to 2.5s GCD. There are numerous classes affected by the long GCD and they don't have the resources to fix the consequences of adding the GCD (which was only added 30 odd days out from EA patch as a shotgun decision). Enough is enough.

WoW is at 1.5s GCD currently. Let's not try too hard to be "MNM" on this one. 2.5s GCD is grandpa gaming, even if you ignore the classes that it broke.

Grivyn · Monday at 2:33 PM

Been waiting on the PVE lottery and got a PVP one, I'd say at least 1/2 the players on the PVP server are just folks who want to be on the PVE server but to scratch the itch are playing PVP cause that's the only invite they have so far of which im one.

The game is just not functional for PVP as it is, being auto flagged from level 2 just means your open prey for all the dickhead lvl4 monks that flame punch you, FD the guard agro and wait for the dot to kill you. Once you can get past the early levels then folks get more helpful as they are more focused on enjoying the game than ruining someone else's game experience.

Sylas · Monday at 10:54 PM

Tol said:
The biggest paradox of classic eq that I can't figure out is that the entire playerbase basically brays about how the inaccessibility and lack of features like a map are selling points, but then in-game literally everyone I meet is using map overlays, wiki spawn guides, showEQ, logging their alt accounts/guildmates for buff bots, and so on to do everything in their power to make it play like a modern day MMO with minimal inconveniences. Its like forums and genchat reality and what the players say they want and love is a completely different thing than how anyone actually ever plays the game.

If they aren't, then someone in their guild group doing the pulling/effort almost always is.

nobody wants that, they just want other people that they are playing against to have to suffer from that disadvantage. And games like this you have to realize, you are playing against other players. contested PVE is soft PVP and it is the gayest form of PVP there is. Even gayer than faction locked PVP like DAOC/WoW/etc uses. That's the one thing I never understood about WoW, not even sharing a language with the opposite faction, now I have even less of a reason to want to fight that guy. The guy I want to kill is the faggot on my own team that keeps stealing the copper nodes while I'm clearing the mobs guarding it. Fuck that guy.

jayrebb said:
GCD on melees needs to come down to 1.75s from 2.5s. It's just too clunky and classes weren't designed for long GCDs. Example Archer Flurry of Arrows loses an entire tick and reset on it's Quickshot due to the GCD change. Also Exposing Shot is no longer worth the cast for the same reason, DPS loss due to 2.5s GCD. There are numerous classes affected by the long GCD and they don't have the resources to fix the consequences of adding the GCD (which was only added 30 odd days out from EA patch as a shotgun decision). Enough is enough.

WoW is at 1.5s GCD currently. Let's not try too hard to be "MNM" on this one. 2.5s GCD is grandpa gaming, even if you ignore the classes that it broke.

2.5s sounds like fucking FF14 and that shit was aids. Then again the player models in MNM look like ultra low poly weeaboo shit anyway so maybe its an homage to a shit game?

Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Lord Nagafen Raider

Potato del Grande

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

Vyemm Raider

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

Buzzfeed Editor

Trakanon Raider

Lord Nagafen Raider

Ssraeszha Raider

Trump's Staff

Vyemm Raider

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

Vyemm Raider

Ssraeszha Raider

Perpetually Pessimistic

Vyemm Raider

Trakanon Raider

Ssraeszha Raider

Molten Core Raider