Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Siliconemelons said:

As a SK - from launch till OOW/GoD era...

The pet was very useful in various ways and tactics throughout the changes in EQ - it was mostly useful in soloing, secondary in pulling (depending on the era) - and in group it was "fine" it did some damage and if you used it, you usually could manage it.

Reverse kite with agro hold + running while pet did the work was a thing, I did it in PoValor on my horse, was safe and easy solo exp.

Lifetaps were never enough to "heal" in their standard lineup - only LifeLeech was a big thing and I used it for a very very long time because of its utility cast time etc.

When they re-hauled bash damage, 1h+shield was a very viable combo

HT was like you said never balanced, in classic through SoV it was just a, why not- beep =hurhur some dmg thing, it was okay to have even in soloing to try and live, but it was nowhere near LoH in its usefulness

SK's in PoP were really nicely fleshed out and balanced with the group heals/mana and their all-stacking debuffs were there as well, it was not bad- SKs always had utility as agro snaps vs anyone else throughout the entire range of play, and it held a spot. They were very self reliant, self invs, self lev, self buffs...

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Yes 5 expansions in with 150 AAs and 20 new spells SKs really came into their own.

Lot of people who never understood the SK, and never saw a good SK player work their magic, are speaking out of their asses here.

Take the win and accept your new generic game the way you like it. But don't for once think that you have any clue what you are talking about.

Grim1 said:

Lot of people who never understood the SK, and never saw a good SK player work their magic, are speaking out of their asses here.

Take the win and accept your new generic game the way you like it. But don't for once think that you have any clue what you are talking about.

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When I did p99, and I did for a long time.

I would be in places and stuff and be like "I remember doing x" on live... and then I realized just how "mid" I became /lazy old man/ on p99, and I was still a darn good SK-- on live...whew it was magical.

Every class was "better" 5 xpacs and 150AAs in... having been 1 class through live and p99 - the SK really was my love, I had some others but none where main- a shaman when I could duo on live, that was super awesome, but learning to live as a SK was great. I had a friend that was a ranger, I have never seen one play like him, he was insane - we would do groups and stuff and then I would group with a pickup and get a ranger and be like "bro why you always dead?"

Grim1 said:

The only reason I had any interest in this game was to play an old school SK. I''ll try the new changes during the next free play session but I'm very doubtful that I will have any interest in the class. There is nothing else about this game that I think is worth the price so probably will be skipping it.

Glad you enjoy losing more potential subs in a game that is going to need every one of them.

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Did you play WoW at all? If so, which class?

SKs were pretty "meh" during classic, except for HT bombing some bosses. They were one of the few classes that "stacked" pretty well though, because of HT bombs. And good SKs during the Kunark era who knew how to take advantage of Unholy Aura and Leechcurse were invaluable. They absolutely shit all over Paladins in terms of what they brought to a group/raid in most instances. The issue was that most people who played them were too busy roleplaying as edgy boiz(while blasting AFI and pulling out their lip piercings IRL)to ever actually learn how to play the class well.

Kirun said:

Did you play WoW at all? If so, which class?

SKs were pretty "meh" during classic, except for HT bombing some bosses. They were one of the few classes that "stacked" pretty well though, because of HT bombs. And good SKs during the Kunark era who knew how to take advantage of Unholy Aura and Leechcurse were invaluable. They absolutely shit all over Paladins in terms of what they brought to a group/raid in most instances. The issue was that most people who played them were too busy roleplaying as edgy boiz(while blasting AFI and pulling out their lip piercings IRL)to ever actually learn how to play the class well.

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I always saw SKs are fairly "free" +1 in number in raids - in general we could get to almost anywhere ourself, FD, invs, undead invs, lev... speed not withstanding.

We did decent damage even if it was just "eh auto attack" - we did not require as much off-healing and attention from AoE bosses because of lifetaps (that were practically unresistable, looking at you p99) could generally keep us alive through most normal AoE fights (the 1200 dmg ToV one not so much)

We could step up and off tank, or alt tank if needed in a clinch or to get a cleric camped out etc. Pet tricks were always fun in pulling and other situation - but yeah a decent SK had to pay attention. The fact some SKs would ask me "why are you casting level 9 d-cloud?" was like... friend...come now....

I never met a fellow SK that was a emo kid...

Grim1 said:

Lot of people who never understood the SK, and never saw a good SK player work their magic, are speaking out of their asses here.

Take the win and accept your new generic game the way you like it. But don't for once think that you have any clue what you are talking about.

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How 'good' an SK player is really has no connection to if the class was well designed or provides compelling gameplay. I have known and do know folks that are great at it and perform very well.

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself though man! Sorry you're losing your shot at playing one again.

Kirun said:

Did you play WoW at all? If so, which class?

SKs were pretty "meh" during classic, except for HT bombing some bosses. They were one of the few classes that "stacked" pretty well though, because of HT bombs. And good SKs during the Kunark era who knew how to take advantage of Unholy Aura and Leechcurse were invaluable. They absolutely shit all over Paladins in terms of what they brought to a group/raid in most instances. The issue was that most people who played them were too busy roleplaying as edgy boiz(while blasting AFI and pulling out their lip piercings IRL)to ever actually learn how to play the class well.

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WoW was never my cup of tea. Played a few times over the years but never more than a couple of months. I think it's a very well made game and it deserves it's success. But it just wasn't for me, mostly because of the graphics.

Bad SK's were "meh" during classic. But a good sk was very valuable. I started EQ during the time when parties got an xp penalty when a sk grouped with them. Which meant almost noone played a sk. I stuck with it and learned my class. And by midgame had a rep on the server that had some of the best dps and healers asking me everytime I logged in to group with them even with the xp penalty. A good sk could hold agro over any dps or healer. Which meant dps/healers could unload, something they could almost never do with a warrior or paladin. By the time I reached max level the top 3 guilds were recruiting me hard. I joined the best guild just as they took off and we left every one else on the server 2 expansions behind.

I was offtank and / or in the pull group when raiding. Many times both at the same time. We were very fast at raiding, and a lot of that had to do with the raid being able to chew through the trash mobs at extreme speed. With me holding agro and the dps / healers unloading everything they had. A good sk was always in demand from players who understood the sk's strengths.

And there are tricks you could do with the pet that could bypass all kinds of trash and other inconveniences. Sk's were amazing if you understood the class and it's capablities.

Quaid said:

How 'good' an SK player is really has no connection to if the class was well designed or provides compelling gameplay. I have known and do know folks that are great at it and perform very well.

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself though man! Sorry you're losing your shot at playing one again.

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You can say that about any class.

But people forget that many of the "bad" design decisions for sk were intentional. They wanted the class to be rare back then. I didn't mind the group xp penalty which was considered the main "bad" design decision. It didn't slow me down that much and I would play with that handicap again without complaint. The problem is that the people complaining about the SK are the same people who want everything handed to them.

It's ok to have a class that most people can't figure out. But generic johnny cries too much for that to happen anymore.

Grim1 said:

You can say that about any class.

But people forget that many of the "bad" design decisions for sk were intentional. They wanted the class to be rare back then. I didn't mind the group xp penalty which was considered the main "bad" design decision. It didn't slow me down that much and I would play with that handicap again without complaint. The problem is that the people complaining about the SK are the same people who want everything handed to them.

It's ok to have a class that most people can't figure out. But generic johnny cries too much for that to happen anymore.

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That's like... the times mannnn. People expect the world given to them on a silver platter. How dare they have to play the game and earn anything in it! Why, they pay 14.99 a month! That entitles them to everything!

Hekotat said:

More defined list of changes here if you click on each class.

Fighter and Inquisitor were my favorites and the changes make me sad/worried. I liked Fighter having the ability to do both, it was a nice change of pace from time to time.

Classes — Monsters & Memories

monstersandmemories.com

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I have some free time coming up "soon" so it looks like Ill be remaking the classes I did want to play, just to see if I still like them or not - and possibly pick another class to play for retail.

Daidraco said:

I have some free time coming up "soon" so it looks like Ill be remaking the classes I did want to play, just to see if I still like them or not - and possibly pick another class to play for retail.

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None of the mechanics have changed yet, not even sure there is an eta yet. Consult the magic 8 ball next month.

Shawn’s damage control posts in the sk thread are pretty decent actually, but that whole thing is pretty Kek. Some pro level foot shooting.

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

That's like... the times mannnn. People expect the world given to them on a silver platter. How dare they have to play the game and earn anything in it! Why, they pay 14.99 a month! That entitles them to everything!

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TIL spending endless hours no-lifing a game is what qualifies as "earning" something now.

Very little about EverQuest actually required real skill. There were some niche mechanics certain classes could exploit(mainly Enchanters and Bards)that allowed for a bit of skill expression, but overall, the game was piss easy as long as you paid even minimal attention and weren't constantly messing around. Any game where you can "multibox" your own group obviously doesn't require much skill. In fact, I used to like multiboxing precisely because it was one of the only ways to keep the game somewhat "engaging" for long periods of time.

Most of the players who struggled in EQ weren't failing because the game was difficult or their class "sucked", they were failing because they were distracted. Between constant AFK breaks, getting sidetracked in chat (ERP, LARPing, arguing in OOC, etc.), or just generally not paying attention, it's not surprising they performed poorly.

Watched a bit of Shawn's podcast regarding class changes. He says to shadowknights "just play a necromancer".

Shawn is a moron. This game is toast. Enjoy your modern audience garbage. I won't be there.

GuardianX said:

Whats wild to me these days after playing TLPs and having the absolute abundance of gear thats available to you there...people STILL fucking fail.

Fully kitted out characters, every benefit possible...still can't focus for a raid to kill a boss.

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It's well known at this point the EQ playing community gets worse as time goes on.

Grim1 said:

Watched a bit of Shawn's podcast regarding class changes. He says to shadowknights "just play a necromancer".

Shawn is a moron. This game is toast. Enjoy your modern audience garbage. I won't be there.

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Shows he has no insight or bundled brain cells to understand what a SK is and even how SKs role played. Most SKs did not RP or even lean “ohhh necro evil undead muhahahaha” …

Grim1 said:

Watched a bit of Shawn's podcast regarding class changes. He says to shadowknights "just play a necromancer".

Shawn is a moron. This game is toast. Enjoy your modern audience garbage. I won't be there.

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How is having a slightly different vision for SK than a 1999 RPG “modern audience garbage”

GuardianX said:

Whats wild to me these days after playing TLPs and having the absolute abundance of gear thats available to you there...people STILL fucking fail.

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I mean… do you really feel like you’re dealing with the top echelons of human potential here?

Siliconemelons said:

Shows he has no insight or bundled brain cells to understand what a SK is and even how SKs role played. Most SKs did not RP or even lean “ohhh necro evil undead muhahahaha” …

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Yeah, he's one of those morons that assumes that people played SK to be some sort of edgelord. Fucking retard. Shadowknight and Enchanter were great classes that no other game ever tried to recreate in any meaningful way. Mainly because the devs were cowards and idiots that couldn't figure it out. Just like Shawn and company.

We liked the class because of what it was, how it was designed and the gameplay. And we want to play that class again. Not his version of blue mage gaylord. He has no idea what a sk was and why we liked it. And apparently no other game dev or company did either. Since it was never replicated. Shawn operates based on his misguided misconceptions and it shows in his demeaner and his idiotic design decisions.

So Shawn is just another passive aggressive shitlord making generic shit for generic retards. I don't wish for them to fail. But I don't see any way that anyone that truly played a sk will be there for this garbage.

good. game is very boring

honestly, it won’t live or die by these class changes alone, but at least we wont just automatically know everything a class will do from the beginning to end because we played eq. it was in need of some creativity

sks, sorry for your loss or whatever