Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Daidraco

<Gold Donor>
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Smiling learning Polar from Ashes of Creation imploded. It would have been interesting if they were a wave 1 invite. Felt bad for the GMs/devs having to deal with them when its unpaid work. Was not aware the zerg was being routed like that. Also good news-- maybe enough to start playing again. Disappointed Shrouded Royals didn't hold together in the 2nd wave invites, but seems they lacked enough people who wanted to push levels.
I healed and tanked for Polar when leveling in AOC. I still have that particular Discord on the list. I liked the guys I was with there. But with the bad name they have, I have no doubt the leadership is as bad as ya'll say it is.

In other news - has Shawn or anyone said when theyre going to push the class changes live? Or are they live already for Druid, Wizard and Enchanter?
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,322
13,820
I healed and tanked for Polar when leveling in AOC. I still have that particular Discord on the list. I liked the guys I was with there. But with the bad name they have, I have no doubt the leadership is as bad as ya'll say it is.

In other news - has Shawn or anyone said when theyre going to push the class changes live? Or are they live already for Druid, Wizard and Enchanter?

4 are live and have been for a bit, it's been silent on the remaining classes. No deep dives or more info has come, I'm guessing they'll likely drop all at once on the test server.
 
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GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
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Bst and rog? Are next I believe.
Great, already have agro issues on my fighter with our static rogue.

Pretty sure fighter agro abilities are not scaling and instead go from a range where the ability says "50 (level 1) to 500 (level 60)" it's literally giving you a random threat increase between 50 and 500.

Noticed this threat issue a ton more when I hit 50+ and our groups DPS got their multi hit skills.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
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When EQ was new, the player base was so small (and with mostly no other frame of reference) timed mobs, etc, worked. Not because it was a good system, but because the game never exploded in terms of popularity so to speak. When WoW launched, it became popular quite fast, but the only fix they had to do was mostly hardware. We all remember the opening months, where lag was so bad that when you did the animation to bend down to loot something, you kept moving in a floaty bent down position. It took months to fix that. But adding millions of players to the game didn't really impact peoples enjoyment of the game other than login queues and in game possibly crowded quest locations. But an increase in player count never limited your ability to do X content.

So, while I am not a game dev, that is the way I would look at any base system of a game. "What if the game exploded like wow?" Say suddenly a new, not thought of market, started playing for whatever reason. Suddenly your servers are chocked, it is a luxury problem for a dev, as they need to invest in hardware/servers, but they're being paid for by a massive customer base. However, once they get in, how do the number of players affect the players themselves? If a limited beta of two to three guilds can create such ridiculous drama thing as the one a few pages back in terms of world/raid spawns, then that is not a good system.

I am not saying you need to make a game that tries to cater to everyone (that would probably end up catering to noone). You can have lots of old school systems like slower leveling, no/limited maps, more focus on group play, slower group play where you sit around a camp and don't constantly move, corpse runs, trains (and not have mobs tethered). All of these are EQ like, and while for sure limiting the amount of players interested in it, the game still works so to speak no matter how many players you add to it.

There are many things EQ did that I miss from MMOs today, but a PvE world where everything is contested? That's not good design imo. You can absolutely have some things contested, and I love larger zones/dungeons where you do camp checks and see other people playing. Especially some high level areas mixed with low level areas where you suddenly get mega buffed by a 30 level higher player that runs by on the way to some dark corner of the zone. But to have all content required to "progress" contested? No. That's not something that would not cause problems if your game became a success. Unless the idea is to have very small servers, but again... 2-3 guilds are enough to cause such issues, it would be the death for any "casual" raiding guild. So they would never form, why would they?

this just turns everything into entitlement, WoW did everything you said and it turned into meaningless zerg raids and 0 interaction with people. you have to get it in your head that relying on others is what drives the game because of the socialization.

You guys are so overly sensative that you HAVE to be gaurenteed that you can do xyz or you won't enjoy the game, it's bollocks imo
 
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Puka

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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this forum has really gone to shit the top 4 threads are EQL EQ3 M&N and AION. Enjoy your circle jerk fellas. Try not to get too much cum on each other
 
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Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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rad

Lord of Guk
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Really glad they're getting rid of in combat stealth/ambush bullshit, wasn't a fan of that.

If played right, rogues are an enchanters bestfriend. Ability to lock down charmies and create space for hard cc is a great niche, happy they aren't changing that. Some of the best groups I've had is playing backup to the pulling enchanter.

Been on vacation the last week, lucky me to return the same day reworks for the two classes I've been playing drop!
 
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Droigan

Blackwing Lair Raider
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this just turns everything into entitlement, WoW did everything you said and it turned into meaningless zerg raids and 0 interaction with people. you have to get it in your head that relying on others is what drives the game because of the socialization.

You guys are so overly sensative that you HAVE to be gaurenteed that you can do xyz or you won't enjoy the game, it's bollocks imo

I don't think that is true at all. What turned WoW into the lack of interaction wasn't just instancing everything, but things like
- Ability to solo the vast majority of content for leveling, especially in the open world.
- Quick leveling (even in classic) with little to no level spread in zones. Dying didn't matter at all. I remember making friends for years getting help with and helping with corpse runs.
- Fast combat. Groups moved so fast that any communication between players were usually related to combat. So quick that voice chat started to become a needed feature. In EQ you would log on, find a group and stay with them for hours on end, chatting in the downtime. It felt like a graphical mIRC channel at times. Usually being a good team player meant that you also started looking for a replacement to your spot before you left. Sure, the latter also happened in WoW, but usually only if you were doing dungeons over and over. For a new player, most groups were one and done for a quest.
- Early on, trading also was a major thing. EC tunnel trading times were great.

Socialization in EQ happened through a ton of "features" that weren't features. Just how the game was built. Competing against every major raid spawn weren't what built the socialization in that game. I was never a part of it, guild I was in were like a expansion or two behind. So we started in PoP raids around the time the expansion with the weird names was out. Had two raids a week, usually never contested. We checked beforehand and if anyone else was doing something, we did something else.

As I said in the post I do not want everything being instanced, but there is a balance there rather than everything or nothing. Example, having everything in the world shared/contested except major progress raid bosses, where they're akin to a boss gate in a Souls game. Where road up to the boss is a large dungeon filled with players, but as you go your way there you actually hope the dungeon is filled with people so you don't have to do trash on the way to the "raid" section. How would that impact anything about the socialization of the game at all other than the bickering or communication between the top guilds guilds for the rotation?

Yeah, it'd allow "everyone" to ability to try the raids, but at little to no cost at all to the features that require interactions between players. The socalled cost of socialization lost by no longer having communication about contested raids could also be migated by other forms of communication instead as groups/lower tier guilds could sell trash clearing services to the guilds attempting the actual raids, so they can run straight there quickly.
 

Pasteton

Vyemm Raider
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That’s what I would think happen in this game too, in eq the different caliber of guilds would kind of spread out amongst the various content tiers, but the people arguing for instancing here insist that everyone would be piled up at the top end competing and ruining the experience.
 

Droigan

Blackwing Lair Raider
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That’s what I would think happen in this game too, in eq the different caliber of guilds would kind of spread out amongst the various content tiers, but the people arguing for instancing here insist that everyone would be piled up at the top end competing and ruining the experience.

Yes, that is how it would work, if the game never becomes a success. Which is what I mentioned in the first post. The mmo market today is what, 100x the size of what it was during the peak of EQ? In terms of people who play various mmos. If MoM became a success, with millions of players filling the servers causing queues a year or two down the line there would always be massive competition at all tiers. It wouldn't be something you could wait out. It would mean the death of all casual / semi casual players who just want to play at their own pace and eventually progress, and that is the vast majority of the mmo playerbase. Which would mean that they wouldn't even be there, which would mean that the aforementioned success would die before it could even happen. I'd argue most people want don't to engage with a queue system for guilds and the risk of being trained or getting into guild arguments for the sake of progress. It's one thing to be casual and not expecting to do the top content at once, but with filled servers, all "tiers" would be the same. They can't progress without entering a system most in tuned with poopsockery, hence in a year or two, instead of continiously growing, you'd have shrinking playerbase.

It's a system that isn't scalable to the potential playerbase of the current market. Unlike all the other EQ like systems I listed in the first post, which would be the same no matter how many players you throw at it, this one is not in tune with a possability of suddenly exploding in popularity. That's why I call it a bad system. Sure it can absolutely work with a small playerbase, just like it did for EQ, but if you know (and we do know based on decades of MMO experience now) that it is so utterly detrimental to potentially striking it big/mainstream, why would you limit yourself like that?

Say you have a key, flag, whatever you call it that enables you/raid to enter a boss room / area / arena, at the end of a dungeon/zone. Everything else is open/shared world, but cliking a thing at the entrance of the boss which is blocked, teleports the raid into the instance. Only for raids. So ALL content except the end boss for raids, is shared. How would that limit or ruin anything at all from the "eq" experience? While at the same time, it would instantly solve the ability of scaling. Every server could be filled to the brim, with poopsockers, tryhards and casuals alike. All interacting with eachother, except "blocking" eachother from raid progress.

I just don't see anything so good that it adds that is anywhere near to make up for the potential bad.

well it is, too bad for your wall of text

Donald Trump GIF by Election 2016
 

Sythrak

Vyemm Raider
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How does raiding with contested spawns vs. instanced kill socialization? In EQ or WoW I was generally only colluding with my fellow degenerates in the guild either way. If we're talking negative interactions with competition sure I guess, but I think that's something most can do without. Locking guilds out of content not only reduces the amount of people that experience it, but it's just a form of soft PvP and we've seen how PvP goes in most of these games - a slow decline till the server is dead.
 
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Quaid

Trump's Staff
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That’s what I would think happen in this game too, in eq the different caliber of guilds would kind of spread out amongst the various content tiers, but the people arguing for instancing here insist that everyone would be piled up at the top end competing and ruining the experience.

We insist it will happen because it's what we're observing in real time.

There are currently somewhere between 8-12 guilds on Quarm clearing Vex Thal and prime-time population is in the neighbourhood of 800 players.

Many guilds will absolutely try to access the top tier of content, and 90% of them will lose if it is contested. The notion that the losers will naturally 'spread out' without just finding another game entirely is delusional.
 
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