Quaid
Trump's Staff
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How the fuck do you 'zerg' raid MOBs with the modest raid number caps WoW has?
Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
How the fuck do you 'zerg' raid MOBs with the modest raid number caps WoW has?
Agraza
Registered Hutt
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Yea, there's just too many decent ways for people to spend their time now. During EQ most MMOs were very basic and potentially more grindy.
If you're telling me I have to poopsock/batphone for access, I'll just play another game.
Otoh, if I am the bottleneck, if I need to spend the time developing access through factions, crafting, farming keys/mats,etc. then I can put up with it because I will make small amounts of progress that no one is keeping from me. That's all content.
Waiting on a 72hr +/-16 spawn to summon a discord zerg even when the loot will only go to alts and socials just to prevent my competition from gearing isn't content for 99% of the pop.
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Pasteton
Vyemm Raider
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In eq people definitely stuck around and did content below the top tier for a long time and a lot of it was access restrictions in the way you are talking about, like getting faction up or getting keys for vex thal etc it lead to some guilds doing different content than others without all raid guilds being crammed at the top. But i dunno if this small team will prevent a real top heavy scenario. You will have a golden period where just a few guilds doing end content for a couple months or so but once more slower grinding folks catch up, lt could get crowded unless they manage to generate crazy amounts of content / access bottlenecks
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Pasteton
Vyemm Raider
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They are trying something different now, no more set timers on raid mobs, rather random quakes, you can have characters camped near one but then you might lose out on another. And apparently some are gonna have special spawn conditions (guessing weather , moons shit like that). It may just turn into who can camp the most number of characters out by various spawns while playing alts, which is why i think they instead should have entire raid zones that are randomly and unpredictably accessible that you can’t even camp out in when they are down. So you end up in a scenario where everything spawn at once. So if you’re competing , you have to decide which target you want to go for , or maybe switch if you’re losing, or work it out with other guilds in advance.
For now they’re just deactivated.
For now they’re just deactivated.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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>This isn't a raid focused game, and there wont be many targets.
>Also they should have many raid targets and have them spawn all at once that no one guild could lock them all down.
Just instance the god damn raids for fucks sake.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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My preference would be a ongoing competitive sudoko game where the guild that completes the most in any 24 hour period gets raid access. Also it would be rad if they had a random spawn juggling competition players would need to turn on webcam and juggle, longest lasting wins raid access.
Seriously though let them try some stuff out for raiding, they can always just fold and instance it if nothing else works. Whining about it is just wasting breath, everyone knows what the backup plan is if they can't figure out something feasible.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Tomorrow I'm just gonna go outside and try to drive backwards to work. Honestly who knows, it might work. It's just the way I feel like driving, and anyone whining about it is just wasting their breath. If it gets sketchy on the highway I can always just turn around and go straight.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Yea makes sense. Video games and commuting are basically the same thing. Solid comparison brother
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Tomorrow I'm just gonna wear my socks on my ears...
Tonight I'm just going to try to cook dinner with my hair dryer...
This year I'm gonna plant my tomatoes upside down...
There is 20 years of precedent on how to appropriately solve the problems with MMO raiding. Ignoring it is as silly as ignoring the common wisdom in the examples I've provided.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Yea, the only way for the genre to get better is for devs to keep solving every problem in exactly the same way. How can you improve what is already perfect?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yeah we should just try things over again that have already failed.
Go ahead and wear socks on your ears if you like, but don't be surprised when the rest of us look at you funny.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Point me to the game that uses webcam juggling for raid access? Cmon man
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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fanaskin
Well known agitator
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zerg describes how the raids work where people just que up to them and there's not much coordination
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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There's some rare spawn in the ocean zone that connects the two cities the boat goes through that everyone thinks the spawn is bound to needing the 3 moons need to be full moons to spawn.
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Just matching your silly energy. They're hopefully going to try to solve the problem with open world raiding in a different way than WoW did. I agree with your sentiment in the sense that they can't just paste P99 raid rules and call it good, but I disagree that the only path forward is instancing.
My view on this has consistently been that I hope they try to fix these very real problems that you're referring to in a new way rather than just copy/pasting "what works". I specifically want this because I think the genre took a specific path after WoW and nobody has come along and actually tried to challenge those decisions. Everyone has been like you and decided there is only one way forward. I disagree and hope they find a more integrated way to approach it. If they fail I hope devs continue to try until someone nails it.
Hopefully that clear enough for you and you won't feel the need to inflict any more awful analogies on us
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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That is half the common definition of a zerg. The other half is using overwhelming numbers to overcome what is intended to be dealt with through coordination and skill.
You can't 'zerg' in WoW.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Oh so you just hope they have some super innovative idea they're going to try and it'll revolutionize MMORPG raiding as we know it.
I got ya.
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Now you're getting it. Yes I expect a game modeled after something made 27 years ago to innovate on its design. I also expect that innovation to be different than the design created 21 years ago.
How unreasonable.
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