Mortal Online 2

Chersk

Silver Knight of the Realm
455
247
8d 9h 53m
To each their own.

This kind of game is right up my alley & I’ve been having a blast in the stress test. Big improvements over MO1 in graphics, animations, combat and the crafting is still extremely deep.

Sure there are some rough edges all over the place but it’s a tiny team so whatever. The core of the game is pure gold IMO. I know that’s a minority opinion but there is definitely an audience out there for hardcore, risk/reward games.

There are actual secrets in this game to be discovered and manipulated to your advantage. A friend of mine discovered an alchemy recipe in MO1 that no one else knew. He was literally the only person selling a particular potion for months. I love that kind of shit.
 
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Creslin

Molten Core Raider
1,972
766
38d 7h 43m
To each their own.

This kind of game is right up my alley & I’ve been having a blast in the stress test. Big improvements over MO1 in graphics, animations, combat and the crafting is still extremely deep.

Sure there are some rough edges all over the place but it’s a tiny team so whatever. The core of the game is pure gold IMO. I know that’s a minority opinion but there is definitely an audience out there for hardcore, risk/reward games.

There are actual secrets in this game to be discovered and manipulated to your advantage. A friend of mine discovered an alchemy recipe in MO1 that no one else knew. He was literally the only person selling a particular potion for months. I love that kind of shit.
There is an audience but it is extremely tough to nail it down and get the mechanics right. This isn’t the first hardcore game to come out and they usually fail for similar reasons.

The wolves kill all the sheep and then you have a game with no people. Seen it happen over and over and over again. Eve is the only game to ever get it right with a good risk reward balance between pvp and non pvp areas that still let people who didn’t want to look over their shoulder constantly have fun. They also made pking relatively tough local chat as a warning system, most other games some map hacking dude rolls up on a oom pve player and slaughters them no contest.

even if they could launch a stable game with good mechanics it still fails in 3 months due to that.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
20,696
28,794
127d 3h 40m
Yeah open ended PvP like that is a tough thing to balance in game. Most people just dont want to deal with that shit. Or better yet most people would rather dip their toes into PvP arena when THEY want to, not be forced into it while picking berries or collecting boar asses. C Creslin is spot on the money when it comes to wolves and sheep, few players are wolves, most are sheep, and they will not stick around in a game when they get constantly ganked. And the reality of all this is that wolves dont really want to fight other wolves, they want to farm the sheep. Perfect example in other games that have quickplay introduce such things as SBMM, the wolves start to whine and cry that their farm has been cut off and now they have to fight others like them.
 
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Chersk

Silver Knight of the Realm
455
247
8d 9h 53m
Both Mortal and Darkfall ran for many years. Original DF was bought out by fans and is still going today.

MO2 obviously will never be a huge commercial success or anything but "fail" is subjective and a little harsh IMO. These games aren't aiming for large audiences, obviously.
 
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Creslin

Molten Core Raider
1,972
766
38d 7h 43m
Both Mortal and Darkfall ran for many years. Original DF was bought out by fans and is still going today.

MO2 obviously will never be a huge commercial success or anything but "fail" is subjective and a little harsh IMO. These games aren't aiming for large audiences, obviously.
Darkfall failed and for exactly the reasons I stated. Mortal will fail too if it doesn’t have systems to prevent random ganking and make life as a normal player atleast somewhat tolerable.

I have played all these games in major clans/alliances sometimes in leadership and I love pvp but these devs make the same mistakes over and over again. Dark fall was really fun and might have survived if it had a big area of secure space for non pvp players but the hardcore crowd is so against that shit. I hear the same grouchy old men talk shit on trammel but even UO failed and it had like no competition. It should be about risk v reward, but in these games being a killer is way to high reward and low risk.

Ashes might do it. We will see, mortal will be dead though unless they change direction.
 

uniqueuser

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,055
2,673
64d 10h 41m
I hear the same grouchy old men talk excrement on trammel but even UO failed and it had like no competition. It should be about risk v reward, but in these games being a killer is way to high reward and low risk.
Trammel saved UO from continuing to bleed subscribers but permanently castrated it in the process, like applying a tourniquet to your balls. Since that time there's been this consensus that PKing per se is the problem, and as a consequence we get shitty "designed for PvP" games that fail by their attempts to twist every rule and mechanic into accommodating it within "acceptable" boundaries.

As you said, the root of the issue is that reward grossly outweighs risk. I'd like to see this addressed, and believe it can be, entirely by a system of player policing. Koster lamented back in 2000 that they never found a way to have the good guys win in UO. Another 20 years on and still no one has provided methods for this in any notable (let alone fun) capacity, despite the details being endlessly hashed over these past two decades. So it's not due to scarcity of ideas but what must be a failure of effort or lack of interest, creatively or financially, in making a game world that naturally allows for PvP reined in by player-meted justice instead of copping out by segregating or special-casing it to the point it might as well not exist.

And that's a real shame.
 

Creslin

Molten Core Raider
1,972
766
38d 7h 43m
Trammel saved UO from continuing to bleed subscribers but permanently castrated it in the process, like applying a tourniquet to your balls. Since that time there's been this consensus that PKing per se is the problem, and as a consequence we get excrementty "designed for PvP" games that fail by their attempts to twist every rule and mechanic into accommodating it within "acceptable" boundaries.

As you said, the root of the issue is that reward grossly outweighs risk. I'd like to see this addressed, and believe it can be, entirely by a system of player policing. Koster lamented back in 2000 that they never found a way to have the good guys win in UO. Another 20 years on and still no one has provided methods for this in any notable (let alone fun) capacity, despite the details being endlessly hashed over these past two decades. So it's not due to scarcity of ideas but what must be a failure of effort or lack of interest, creatively or financially, in making a game world that naturally allows for PvP reined in by player-meted justice instead of copping out by segregating or special-casing it to the point it might as well not exist.

And that's a real shame.
I think the painful thing for me is that EVE did it in space. It works. It works long term. It is fun for all the sandbox play-styles. I know space and the solar system design don't directly translate to a fantasy type game but it has been 18 years of failure after failure and no one has even tried. The core of that system was that you had tiers of safety and the farther you got out into those tiers the better rewards you generally got, you could still make money and get to end game never leaving the safe areas but you would incur a big penalty to your playtime.

It also allowed guilds to create semi safe-ish areas even in generally dangerous zones and it's systems gave PVE players enough of a warning that they usually had atleast a chance of making it away. In darkfall by contrast by the time you realized someone was attacking you you were almost screwed because the encumbrance mechanics and high pve mob damage gave a huge edge to someone jumping you.

I think Ashes has a decent design that might work, if anything it will be too heavy handed and we won't get great pvp but starting out for a game that is far better, it is easier to decide to make PKing more rewarding later on than it is to go the other way, the PKers have no where to go but tons of games offer the pve gatherer/crafter archetypes a home so when they quit they are gone for good.

Mortal honestly has a good base and I like the gameplay but it desperately needs the devs to realize that the entire world being a free for all is a terrible idea and will result in exactly what happened to darkfall happening to mortal. Darkfall was a good game, it was stable, it's crafting was pretty fun, it had good skill progression, it had good twitchy combat and it still died fast. I think Mortal not offering global banking and hopefully never allowing you to recall/hearth with gear might help but we will see. Darkfall suffered from PKs being able to jump you and recall/bank for safety before you had a chance to respond. Chaos banks were a terrible idea and made life as a PK so easy, in EVE at least if you got in for the kill you still had to get out and if you ganked some big miner with a big ore haul you needed to be able to carry that shit too which required a big slow ship of your own.
 
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jayrebb

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,888
5,737
63d 6h 40m
The first game was a blatant scam and I can't imagine this will be much different. The first game was literally as if Pantheon were to have released 5 years ago. That was the state of the game.

Looks like another scam using stock assets from Unreal 4/Unity. Crafting might be OK, but that doesnt sell to me.

Hacking will be rampant due to the size of the studio and their inability to deal with it.