Mortal Online 2

To each their own.

This kind of game is right up my alley & I’ve been having a blast in the stress test. Big improvements over MO1 in graphics, animations, combat and the crafting is still extremely deep.

Sure there are some rough edges all over the place but it’s a tiny team so whatever. The core of the game is pure gold IMO. I know that’s a minority opinion but there is definitely an audience out there for hardcore, risk/reward games.

There are actual secrets in this game to be discovered and manipulated to your advantage. A friend of mine discovered an alchemy recipe in MO1 that no one else knew. He was literally the only person selling a particular potion for months. I love that kind of shit.

Chersk said:

To each their own.

This kind of game is right up my alley & I’ve been having a blast in the stress test. Big improvements over MO1 in graphics, animations, combat and the crafting is still extremely deep.

Sure there are some rough edges all over the place but it’s a tiny team so whatever. The core of the game is pure gold IMO. I know that’s a minority opinion but there is definitely an audience out there for hardcore, risk/reward games.

There are actual secrets in this game to be discovered and manipulated to your advantage. A friend of mine discovered an alchemy recipe in MO1 that no one else knew. He was literally the only person selling a particular potion for months. I love that kind of shit.

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There is an audience but it is extremely tough to nail it down and get the mechanics right. This isn’t the first hardcore game to come out and they usually fail for similar reasons.

The wolves kill all the sheep and then you have a game with no people. Seen it happen over and over and over again. Eve is the only game to ever get it right with a good risk reward balance between pvp and non pvp areas that still let people who didn’t want to look over their shoulder constantly have fun. They also made pking relatively tough local chat as a warning system, most other games some map hacking dude rolls up on a oom pve player and slaughters them no contest.

even if they could launch a stable game with good mechanics it still fails in 3 months due to that.

Both Mortal and Darkfall ran for many years. Original DF was bought out by fans and is still going today.

MO2 obviously will never be a huge commercial success or anything but "fail" is subjective and a little harsh IMO. These games aren't aiming for large audiences, obviously.

Chersk said:

Both Mortal and Darkfall ran for many years. Original DF was bought out by fans and is still going today.

MO2 obviously will never be a huge commercial success or anything but "fail" is subjective and a little harsh IMO. These games aren't aiming for large audiences, obviously.

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Darkfall failed and for exactly the reasons I stated. Mortal will fail too if it doesn’t have systems to prevent random ganking and make life as a normal player atleast somewhat tolerable.

I have played all these games in major clans/alliances sometimes in leadership and I love pvp but these devs make the same mistakes over and over again. Dark fall was really fun and might have survived if it had a big area of secure space for non pvp players but the hardcore crowd is so against that shit. I hear the same grouchy old men talk shit on trammel but even UO failed and it had like no competition. It should be about risk v reward, but in these games being a killer is way to high reward and low risk.

Ashes might do it. We will see, mortal will be dead though unless they change direction.

Creslin said:

I hear the same grouchy old men talk excrement on trammel but even UO failed and it had like no competition. It should be about risk v reward, but in these games being a killer is way to high reward and low risk.

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Trammel saved UO from continuing to bleed subscribers but permanently castrated it in the process, like applying a tourniquet to your balls. Since that time there's been this consensus that PKing per se is the problem, and as a consequence we get shitty "designed for PvP" games that fail by their attempts to twist every rule and mechanic into accommodating it within "acceptable" boundaries.

As you said, the root of the issue is that reward grossly outweighs risk. I'd like to see this addressed, and believe it can be, entirely by a system of player policing. Koster lamented back in 2000 that they never found a way to have the good guys win in UO. Another 20 years on and still no one has provided methods for this in any notable (let alone fun) capacity, despite the details being endlessly hashed over these past two decades. So it's not due to scarcity of ideas but what must be a failure of effort or lack of interest, creatively or financially, in making a game world that naturally allows for PvP reined in by player-meted justice instead of copping out by segregating or special-casing it to the point it might as well not exist.

And that's a real shame.

uniqueuser said:

Trammel saved UO from continuing to bleed subscribers but permanently castrated it in the process, like applying a tourniquet to your balls. Since that time there's been this consensus that PKing per se is the problem, and as a consequence we get excrementty "designed for PvP" games that fail by their attempts to twist every rule and mechanic into accommodating it within "acceptable" boundaries.

As you said, the root of the issue is that reward grossly outweighs risk. I'd like to see this addressed, and believe it can be, entirely by a system of player policing. Koster lamented back in 2000 that they never found a way to have the good guys win in UO. Another 20 years on and still no one has provided methods for this in any notable (let alone fun) capacity, despite the details being endlessly hashed over these past two decades. So it's not due to scarcity of ideas but what must be a failure of effort or lack of interest, creatively or financially, in making a game world that naturally allows for PvP reined in by player-meted justice instead of copping out by segregating or special-casing it to the point it might as well not exist.

And that's a real shame.

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I think the painful thing for me is that EVE did it in space. It works. It works long term. It is fun for all the sandbox play-styles. I know space and the solar system design don't directly translate to a fantasy type game but it has been 18 years of failure after failure and no one has even tried. The core of that system was that you had tiers of safety and the farther you got out into those tiers the better rewards you generally got, you could still make money and get to end game never leaving the safe areas but you would incur a big penalty to your playtime.

It also allowed guilds to create semi safe-ish areas even in generally dangerous zones and it's systems gave PVE players enough of a warning that they usually had atleast a chance of making it away. In darkfall by contrast by the time you realized someone was attacking you you were almost screwed because the encumbrance mechanics and high pve mob damage gave a huge edge to someone jumping you.

I think Ashes has a decent design that might work, if anything it will be too heavy handed and we won't get great pvp but starting out for a game that is far better, it is easier to decide to make PKing more rewarding later on than it is to go the other way, the PKers have no where to go but tons of games offer the pve gatherer/crafter archetypes a home so when they quit they are gone for good.

Mortal honestly has a good base and I like the gameplay but it desperately needs the devs to realize that the entire world being a free for all is a terrible idea and will result in exactly what happened to darkfall happening to mortal. Darkfall was a good game, it was stable, it's crafting was pretty fun, it had good skill progression, it had good twitchy combat and it still died fast. I think Mortal not offering global banking and hopefully never allowing you to recall/hearth with gear might help but we will see. Darkfall suffered from PKs being able to jump you and recall/bank for safety before you had a chance to respond. Chaos banks were a terrible idea and made life as a PK so easy, in EVE at least if you got in for the kill you still had to get out and if you ganked some big miner with a big ore haul you needed to be able to carry that shit too which required a big slow ship of your own.

Lumi said:

The first game was a blatant scam and I can't imagine this will be much different. The first game was literally as if Pantheon were to have released 5 years ago. That was the state of the game.

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Looks like another scam using stock assets from Unreal 4/Unity. Crafting might be OK, but that doesnt sell to me.

Hacking will be rampant due to the size of the studio and their inability to deal with it.

This launches next month. Anyone here playing still?

Waiting for launch to play. Can't stand pre-alpha beta pre-release early access shit anymore.

I bought it on steam to try it out... the foundation seems solid but i cant get onboard with the "click the mouse for every sing and parry" combat style. Already submitted my refund request hah. Steam gives you two hours of playtime to refund it so it was worth a look. Graphics etc looks good, and I like the UO style skill points system... but i can get into the click to melee stuff.

I can't imagine playing a full PVP full loot MMO with the combat as clunky as I've seen in this game. If I'm going to lose all of my shit, I at least want the combat to be spot on so it feels like when I lose, I'm losing because I suck, not because the game sucks. I haven't seen a MMO yet get the physics correct for melee combat. I don't think the technology is there yet to make the physics work properly. Shooting guns and missiles? Fine. Hacking, slashing, and piercing? Not so much.

etchazz said:

I can't imagine playing a full PVP full loot MMO with the combat as clunky as I've seen in this game. If I'm going to lose all of my shit, I at least want the combat to be spot on so it feels like when I lose, I'm losing because I suck, not because the game sucks. I haven't seen a MMO yet get the physics correct for melee combat. I don't think the technology is there yet to make the physics work properly. Shooting guns and missiles? Fine. Hacking, slashing, and piercing? Not so much.

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But if its as clunky for everyone as it is for you... and you lose... maybe you're just bad?

The melee combat feels very realistic, and will be way too realistic for your arcadey style desiring WoW player.

If I could get into the main world, that'd be great.

Creslin said:

I think the painful thing for me is that EVE did it in space. It works. It works long term. It is fun for all the sandbox play-styles. I know space and the solar system design don't directly translate to a fantasy type game but it has been 18 years of failure after failure and no one has even tried. The core of that system was that you had tiers of safety and the farther you got out into those tiers the better rewards you generally got, you could still make money and get to end game never leaving the safe areas but you would incur a big penalty to your playtime.

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The only reason it works for Eve and the game hasn't bled dry yet is that you need multiple accounts to be competative. The more the better and the need increased over time. I doubt more than a few thousand real people play Eve every day.

Nirgon said:

The melee combat feels very realistic, and will be way too realistic for your arcadey style desiring WoW player.

If I could get into the main world, that'd be great.

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I’m having a blast in haven I wish there would be some 100% safe PVE zone tho

i love that this game insist on one world one server + no instance with those hidden huge spacey public dungeon design

it’s like Everquest 1 classic + elderscroll oblivion despite the PvP

lol look me & my buddy trying to CR naked after died deep in the dungeon

The UO style skill system and realistic "handle hits" and body specific damage is pretty amazing. Same with their take on crafting.

Wynt said:

But if its as clunky for everyone as it is for you... and you lose... maybe you're just bad?

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Lol that guy is just full of shit & excuses

Clunky ? I wish it was clunky pvp I would prefer a quick death if I need to be skilled like this to survive pvp lol

Not gonna travel alone after watching these gameplay videos

going for lowest Dex built to have the slowest clunkiest built focus on magic + PVE tanking with flinging mace spiked head & shield
No wonder people are going for the “ meta” 2 H sword in game lol

I’m still having a good time even though it’s just Haven. I rerolled yesterday because skilling up a character is pretty easy. I’m sure once you have advanced skills that it will be a hard decision…especially if I end up with harder to get animism stuff.

Lots of completely unknowns out there or extremely hard to find info which is awesome and a breath of fresh air in ALL of gaming these days.