Movie's cliches and techniques

ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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Yeah the title is stupid but whatever. Just wanted do discuss about the shaky cam and other stuff and not polute the Star Wars thread.

So, shaky cam....it's annoying, doesn't add up anything, just pointless scenes where you can't see what the hell is happening.

Aliens, T1, T2, Die Hard....just some examples with great action scenes and without any shaky shit.
I like Bourne but more about the story rather the action.

Oh and it is used to downgrade the violence (hunger games and world war Z)
 
Grimmlokk

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Just like bullet time, it was a technique used to great effect in one movie(Saving Private Ryan) and then horribly abused and misused in many after that didn't understand why it worked and how to use it and just applied it in a lazy blanket fashion to make it more actiony.

The same happened a bit with the Zack Snyder's signature quick>super slow>quick stuff from 300. Any time an action movie comes up with something that looks cool other action movies will latch on to it for a while and abuse it.
 
ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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I understand when they use in movies like cloverfield ("amateur" footage) but other than that, it's awful.
 
iannis

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The found footage fad needs to be tortured to death. Mockumentary probably only needs to be flogged in order to rehabilitate it.
 
Feien

Feien

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Cinematography and editing are headed in a interesting direction right now. With pretty much everyone having a camera and a good enough editing program at their disposal, we have what already happened with music, an overflow of content and content creators... mostly shit, but at the same time, some hidden gems.

One the one hand we have an overflow of people who are looking at other movies, find the techniques that seem to work, and apply it to their work because "it looks" cool, it's easy, or it's cheaper. I won't necessarily call it lazy (though it is most of the times) but definitely the easy way out. They are audience pleasers, like Adam Sandler movies or Oh My Gosh It's Another Teen Spartan Movie VI. Sure, those of us with integrity claim to hate those movies, but dammit they keep making buttloads of money, therefore they keep getting made.

On the other hand we have people starting to get more and more interested in talent, constraint, and purpose, which is very good, to stand out. There is also an insurgence of cinematographers that want to be unique, and do things the right way, work side by side with their director, camera operator, Art, and Post. But we all know the politics game, it's only but a handful of those that get picked to do the wide releases.

Yes, shaky cam will most likely be annoying 95% of the time. If you are overly noticing it in a movie, it means they didn't do their work properly (I'm looking at you Hunger Games), but every once in a while it does have great uses, just as fast cutting does (or other techniques out there).
 
Grimmlokk

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Speaking of the Bourne films, another thing that can just go the fuck away forever is the quick-cut short take action/fight scenes.
 
A

Astral Projection_sl

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Not trying to be acontrarian, but just forget this thread and go to TV Tropes.
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Jitter Cam - Television Tropes Idioms

Found Footage Films - Television Tropes Idioms

Bullet Time - Television Tropes Idioms

Fight Scene - Television Tropes Idioms- this page is awesome
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Furry

Furry

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ohkcrlho_sl said:
So, shaky cam....it's annoying, doesn't add up anything, just pointless scenes where you can't see what the hell is happening.

Aliens
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Woooaaa, stop right there buddy. I -HATE- shaky camera. I mean literally fucking hate it. I demanded a refund on the first bourne and never saw the rest (still havent). That said, it CAN be used in some limited situations effectively. Aliens is a good example of excellent shaky cam use:

1. Explosions. Shaky cam works in scenes with explosions, especially if the explosion is super big or off camera.

2. Scenes where you don't want the viewer to know what's going on. Aliens used this idea very effectively in their first trip into the hive. The soldiers had cameras that would show what was going on, but they were shaking around horribly and panning around at not very much a lot. This worked really great for the scene because it was supposed to be a scene where everyone was panic'd and confused, and the cinematography really pushed this idea to the viewer visually.

My big problem with shaky cam is when held camera becomes shaky camera. A held camera is an excellent tool for throwing people into the action, but it shouldn't really shake unless one of the above two happens. Aliens had a ton of really effective held camera scenes (Ripley re-enters the hive, moving through tunnels, ect) Not every shot needs to be framed/stabled, but when you start jumbling that camera around for every little thing, I hate you until you want to go get murdered. Though these camera's were obviously held, they were held with the professionalism of a news crew, not by some zoomed in epileptic faggot.
 
ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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Furry_sl said:
Woooaaa, stop right there buddy. I -HATE- shaky camera. I mean literally fucking hate it. I demanded a refund on the first bourne and never saw the rest (still havent). That said, it CAN be used in some limited situations effectively. Aliens is a good example of excellent shaky cam use:

1. Explosions. Shaky cam works in scenes with explosions, especially if the explosion is super big or off camera.

2. Scenes where you don't want the viewer to know what's going on. Aliens used this idea very effectively in their first trip into the hive. The soldiers had cameras that would show what was going on, but they were shaking around horribly and panning around at not very much a lot. This worked really great for the scene because it was supposed to be a scene where everyone was panic'd and confused, and the cinematography really pushed this idea to the viewer visually.

My big problem with shaky cam is when held camera becomes shaky camera. A held camera is an excellent tool for throwing people into the action, but it shouldn't really shake unless one of the above two happens. Aliens had a ton of really effective held camera scenes (Ripley re-enters the hive, moving through tunnels, ect) Not every shot needs to be framed/stabled, but when you start jumbling that camera around for every little thing, I hate you until you want to go get murdered. Though these camera's were obviously held, they were held with the professionalism of a news crew, not by some zoomed in epileptic faggot.
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The Colonial Marines had cameras attached to their helmets and you could see what which soldier was seeing (like Hicks looking up and Hudson looking down through the same hole). but that has to be shaky because people don't go around with their head really steady (like Batman couldn't move his head in the Burton's movies lol), so the movements you see is to represent how the human head (eyes) move. and if you remember well, you see a similar pov scene in Alien, when Ripley is heading to the escape pod.

To show pov shots or found footage, is kinda dumb not doing shaky cam, it's unrealistic.

Shit like Bourne or Hunger Games, is their's shaky cam i am talking about. Scenes where, like you said, "the held camera becomes shaky camera". And, unfortunately, this is what happening in cinema nowadays. It's a cheap way to disguise some mistakes (poor fight choreographies for example) or to downgrade the violence (World war Z...PG-13 ladies and gentlemen). But NEVER, for me, brought any sense of confusion, panic or whatever. I just get pissed because i start thinking "maybe i am missing any amazing scene".
 
Tuco

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What's especially annoying is when you see a quick-cut fight scene in a movie and figure they did that because they didn't want to have good choreography or athletic actors/stuntmen, and then later you see a 'making of' where they show the whole fight from a single camera and you think, "Man this is so much better."


GoT was a good one, the actor and stunt man who played oberyn martell did an amazing job fighting the mountain, but you couldn't see much in the fight and the actual combat was generally overshadowed by the conclusion, "LIKE THIS!". I watched a video of them fighting in one cut and it was much better. No way I could find it now though.

 
Chukzombi

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i really hate the trope that little kids are somehow impervious to being killed. little kids die all the time in real life. at least there are some exceptions such as in The Incredibles the mom explains to her kids that the bad guys will not hesitate to kill them.

i am also getting tired of the after credits scenes in blockbuster films. the credits in some of those big budget films go on for like 10 minutes and then finally you get like an extra minute of movie and then you are left wondering if it was worth the wait. at least when its on video you can push the slider the fuck over the credits, but in the theater you are fucked. i am all for extra scenes, if you absolutely have to have them then at least stick them after the Directed By/ Produced By credits and before that motherfucking long credit roll. no, i really dont give a shit what the name of the guy who got RDJ his coffee and donuts on the set every day.

lastly, stop giving 20 company logos at the beginning of every movie for all the different studios who collaborated to make the film. its not like they dont list them (in great detail!) again at the end of the film.
 
Kreugen

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The death of quick-cut for me was Quantum of Solace. Holy fucking unwatchable. Second worst was the fight that ruined Elysium.

It didn't even bother me in Bourne.

A real eyeroll is always the "focus a bunch of times on the object that is going to kill the bad guy" I think it'd be funny if there was some drawn out fight sequence that keeps faking you out with various sharp things all over the place. It's probably already been done in some shit spoof movie. Someone should have balls and do it in a "serious" action flick, like Bourne 7 or Bond 24 or Die Harderest.

Funny enough, The Walking Dead loves impaling zombies on things that aren't telegraphed ahead of time. That always makes me smile, just because of that goddamn trope.
 
Furry

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ohkcrlho_sl said:
This movie is the worst bond movie ever. It's unwatchable for so many reasons (the quick-cut included of course)
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It sucked, but that's quite the statement to bring. There have been a lot of reallllly bad bond movies.
 
ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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Furry_sl said:
It sucked, but that's quite the statement to bring. There have been a lot of reallllly bad bond movies.
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For me it was. That Bond movie with Baron Samedi was also shit, just like The world is not enough and die another day.
 
Fedor

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when I'm in a theater and I hear variations of this stupid shit when trailer credits come up

 
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