Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 429
That's an entire block cycle. I've long suspected that most players who will actually stick with the game either jump to modern or legacy in that first year or stop playing once their earliest purchases rotate.
MTG thread
- Thread starter brekk
- Start date
I think Sultai Control can match up favorably with any deck in the format when played and more importantly sideboarded properly. I think it's better than UB but much harder to play which is quite the feat.
I'd run Jeskai from the list you gave Enzie. RW gets blown out too easily in the control matchup from what I've seen and Abzan is okay but there are other decks with better tools for the mid to late game. Whatever you have the most experience and comfort with is probably the best call though.
Grumpus
Molten Core Raider
- 1,927
- 223
Heh funny you should say that because this is the deck I have been playing.
Norin The Weenie (Standard MTG Deck)
I just want to know, is this how Wizards runs the game? Banning POD was a fairly obviously bad idea. Do they make decisions for the worst often then just force you to play a boring format till it sorts itself out or the next ban round or whatever?
Same with standard. KTK was a blast. What it did to standard, KTK draft was super fun. Then they added so much removal its just booooooring.
Grumpus
Molten Core Raider
- 1,927
- 223
I do like creatures, I also like playing control. What I don't like is being forced to play one or the other.
When I started I played fun janky stuff. My norin the wary deck is pretty decent, 2-2 usually 3-1 once. But I want to start winning and to do so I need to invest in a tier 1 deck. POD was one of the only appealing ones. Now the tier one decks are even less appealing with PoD gone.
I played Jeskai Ascendency in standard btw.
For now ive just benched my cards and stopped buying till I see Dragons of Tarkir and Modern Masters 2
drtyrm
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,991
- 155
You really aren't forced to play anything in the current standard. There is literally a playable deck from all in aggro to 1 win condition control. There's also enough interesting cards for new brews to come up all the time. You think this is great removal? You would have lost your mind in the previous standard.
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,386
- 21,360
The first couple of seasons of Modern were so varied and fun. Control decks, combo decks, pod, zoo, affinity, everything running around and doing well. It's been really weird going through Modern events the last year and *not* having an interesting, interactive match with an American Control deck or two. Sure there was a ton of Jund in the first part of the format, but the only really "unfair" thing it did at the start was BBE, a 4-drop, and its gameplay usually required some amount of decision making.
Now you sit through 5+ Rounds of decks with a decision tree resembling a telephone pole.
Now you sit through 5+ Rounds of decks with a decision tree resembling a telephone pole.
Enzee
Trakanon Raider
- 2,197
- 715
Like what?
UB control is the only 'slower' deck, and the matchup isn't that bad for the deck. Game 1 is bad, but favored games 2 and 3, so you just have to play quick and scoop early in game 1 to finish the match in time.
Here is my current list, for reference. It's very 'control' oriented side of Abzan, but still turns the corner quickly and puts pressure on opponents to end the game when there is an opening.
Creatures (10)
4 Siege Rhino
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (26)
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (20)
4 Abzan Charm
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End
2 End Hostilities
1 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Bile Blight
1 Erase
1 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Read the Bones
4 Siege Rhino
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (26)
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Silence
4 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells (20)
4 Abzan Charm
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End
2 End Hostilities
1 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Bile Blight
1 Erase
1 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Read the Bones
Xalara
Golden Squire
- 826
- 81
U/B and Sultai control are good decks, but they have some absolutely terrible match ups. I'm also on the fence right now as to whether or not green devotion is a bad matchup for U/B and Sultai due to the introduction of Whisperwood Elemental. I do know, having played a modified Temur Ascendancy Combo deck for the last few weeks, that I love playing against U/B/x control because I out card advantage them and Temur Ascendancy is huge in the matchup even when not comboing off. The more traditional devotion lists are still running 4x Eidolon of Blossoms and 4x Genesis Hydra alongside 4x Whisperwood Elemental to put the screws to U/B/x control. Of course, the weakness of all devotion lists is an opponent with 2-3 removal spells and a clock.
If I had to guess, I think a sultai whip with transformative sideboard into control or a more controlling jeskai wins deck is where to be this weekend.
If I had to guess, I think a sultai whip with transformative sideboard into control or a more controlling jeskai wins deck is where to be this weekend.
I think RG (Johns version dunno whats popular) shits on it. UB and Sultai control beats it in my mind barring lucky/poor draws. I could be wrong as we don't have many locals who run the deck and maybe two who run it well and I can't keep up with anything atm because I'm too busy busting icicles off a fucking donkey with my spare time. I just don't think it stacks up against what "I" see as the best decks right now. But then I don't have any pins or playmats and placed 31st of 32 at my last PTQ with a deck I think could have made top 8 had it been played properly. I think Jeskai /w mantis riders can thread the needle of the meta is all. Fast enough to get under control with a little luck and enough options to shut down RW/Mono R. Not sure about Abzan or mono green but I think its 50/50 v abzan at worst and have no idea about mono green. Mono G seems to dick around or shit on your face almost at random depending on the version and their draws v your removal. I'm probably wrong but that's how I see it.
Enzee
Trakanon Raider
- 2,197
- 715
I was only asking because if you haven't been watching the last couple weeks, it's easy to miss that abzan has morphed into different variants. The aggro versions and the very slow, midrange versions. Neither of which are like Abzan used to be. The slow version is almost control, and other then UB/sultai, it's really the 'late game' deck.
R/G can be trouble, but your gonna have a bad matchup somewhere. Control isn't as bad as you'd think, as normally control beats 'midrange' but you have tons of big threats that demand an answer, along with instant speed card draw, hand disruption, and planeswalkers after sideboarding. You have some dead cards game 1 with all your removal, but it gets significantly better after that.
Enzie I'd look at working in 3-4 Valorous Stance and 2-3 Reclamation Sage into your 75.
Reclamation Sage is good against Sieges and Vaults, which will be key components of probably 70% of the decks you'll play against. Outpost Siege in particular is brutal in drawn out games and you'll obviously be playing a fair few of those.
Valorous Stance looks like one of the most underrated cards in the set.
I like Warden of the First Tree in this meta, but that'd obviously be moving to aggro. Think yours is the first Abzan Midrange list I've seen without Sorin in it.
Reclamation Sage is good against Sieges and Vaults, which will be key components of probably 70% of the decks you'll play against. Outpost Siege in particular is brutal in drawn out games and you'll obviously be playing a fair few of those.
Valorous Stance looks like one of the most underrated cards in the set.
I like Warden of the First Tree in this meta, but that'd obviously be moving to aggro. Think yours is the first Abzan Midrange list I've seen without Sorin in it.
Here is the deck list:
SORT BY:
Creature (18) 1 Monastery Swiftspear 2 Jeskai Elder 2 Jeskai Sage 1 Welkin Tern 2 Jeskai Windscout 1 Bloodfire Expert 2 Lotus Path Djinn 2 Mistfire Adept 2 Aven Surveyor 1 Dragon-Style Twins 1 Riverwheel Aerialists 1 Sage-Eye Avengers Sorcery (4) 1 Void Snare 1 Arc Lightning 1 Bathe in Dragonfire 1 Hordeling Outburst Instant (11) 1 Refocus 3 Lightning Strike 2 Crippling Chill 1 Whisk Away 2 Winterflame 1 Weave Fate 1 Cunning Strike Enchantment (2) 1 Quiet Contemplation 1 Goblinslide Land (25) 3 Swiftwater Cliffs 12 Island 10 Mountain 60 Cards
I think my deck is meant to take advantage of the prowess mechanic but what ends up happening is that I can't get enough guys down fast enough to put any kind of pressure on the board. I am just not sure what I'm doing wrong. (I have been playing magic a week this was the first deck I picked up)
Unfortunately I feel like this deck was a bad choice and I have no idea how to run it. I'm not quite understanding the play style.
I wanted to know if anyone could give me a good idea as to how to make this deck work and what other fate reforged cards would work well to accent this deck. Thanks!
SORT BY:
Creature (18) 1 Monastery Swiftspear 2 Jeskai Elder 2 Jeskai Sage 1 Welkin Tern 2 Jeskai Windscout 1 Bloodfire Expert 2 Lotus Path Djinn 2 Mistfire Adept 2 Aven Surveyor 1 Dragon-Style Twins 1 Riverwheel Aerialists 1 Sage-Eye Avengers Sorcery (4) 1 Void Snare 1 Arc Lightning 1 Bathe in Dragonfire 1 Hordeling Outburst Instant (11) 1 Refocus 3 Lightning Strike 2 Crippling Chill 1 Whisk Away 2 Winterflame 1 Weave Fate 1 Cunning Strike Enchantment (2) 1 Quiet Contemplation 1 Goblinslide Land (25) 3 Swiftwater Cliffs 12 Island 10 Mountain 60 Cards
I think my deck is meant to take advantage of the prowess mechanic but what ends up happening is that I can't get enough guys down fast enough to put any kind of pressure on the board. I am just not sure what I'm doing wrong. (I have been playing magic a week this was the first deck I picked up)
Unfortunately I feel like this deck was a bad choice and I have no idea how to run it. I'm not quite understanding the play style.
I wanted to know if anyone could give me a good idea as to how to make this deck work and what other fate reforged cards would work well to accent this deck. Thanks!
The idea is sound you're just running sub-optimal cards. You want to be running more swiftspears and combat tricks if you're going all in prowess. Goblin Rabblemaster is a great card for something like that. It doesn't have prowess but baby goblins make him a threat fast. Bounce is kind of a weak effect in standard. For the most part you're paying as much to bounce a creature as you would to kill it with a different spell which isn't ideal. You're centered around aggro beat down which taplands will fuck you on. You don't want lands coming into play tapped if your goal is swing hard and early. I would look into Titans Strength, Dragon Mantle(fire breathing, prowess trigger, and replaces itself for R), and stoke the flames but stoke is expensive. I would run reality shift over bounce spells. Exile for 1U and gives them a manifested creature but a 2/2 that might be a threat is better than the creature that's going to shit on your gameplan now. I would lose goblin slide for sure. It just needs too much support to be worth anything. Purpheros would be a better card that accomplishes the same kind of goal for you at the very least. Torrent Elemental would work better in place of some of your higher end creatures. You can reality shift it to manifest a card and then bring him back from exile for a cute but almost never ideal play. If you end up adding any delve cards you can delve it into exile and bring it back that way as well.
Enzee
Trakanon Raider
- 2,197
- 715
I like valorous stance, but moreso in the abzan aggro lists. It's not great against R/W or Jeskai at all for the removal half, and there's not enough creatures in the slow abzan deck to consistently be able to save one and get value out of it. I'm def not gonna cut hero's downfall or abzan charm, too many planeswalkers around, and charm is too flexible and powerful. Bile blight is a necessity, and murderous cut is a cheaper removal spell on average. Utter end is a catchall.
Rec sage is ok, but i don't fear perilous vault that much. Against control I can out-attrition them, don't need to put down a bunch of threats at once. Between thoughtseize, abzan charm and read the bones, I keep up with them on card draw. Any one planeswalker demands an answer, and I've got almost 10 after sideboard.
Back to nature, abzan advantage, naturalize, erase, utter end and rec sage are all similar for the abzan control deck. Rec sage is slower and more expensive. I want to answer something like outpost siege at end of turn, or answer it and also play my own threat in the same turn, which is why I'd lean towards naturalize, erase or back to nature. Or, Utter end to hedge my bets a little towards 'unknown' stuff. The 2/1 body is barely relevant, and I have no way to recur it. It became popular in the satyr wayfinder/whip of erebos decks because you'd mill it and still 'draw' it, which was great value. We don't have the same kind of tricks to pull here.
In Jeskai (and R/W to a similar extent), valorous stance is amazing. Previously, they had almost no way to efficiently deal with siege rhino, and very few ways to deal with even 4 toughness dudes short of stoke the flames. Against decks that aren't playing big guys, their dudes are small and aggressive enough that 'countering' a wild slash/lightning strike/etc.. is a good tempo play at least.
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 18,304
- -273
To be brutally honest it isn't a real deck, it's a casual hodgepodge of cards and only a few of those are actual good cards (and this doesn't always mean expensive cards, there are good commons). You are going to get no good advice other than REBUILD.
Rough rule of thumb is:
*Have 4 copies of any card you want in your opening hand or need to play in every game (mostly you want this).
*Have 3 copies of a card you want to play during a typical game but may not work well in multiples.
*Have 2 copies of a card you want if the game drags on or really don't want more than one of (not many of these).
*You should never have 1 copy of a card in your deck unless you have a way to search for it.
*Sometimes you can group similar cards together to take a slot or break the 4 card limit, so you could have a 3+2 or 4+1 split of an effect you really want basically counting as 5 copies.
Basic deckbuilding you want to start with choosing 9 cards to have 4 copies of and 24 lands, then tweak from there. I break out the spreadsheets if I can though
These are the tournament versions of the deck you are looking for:
Red ->Standard Red Deck Wins decklists @ mtgtop8.com
Red & White ->Standard Boros Aggro decklists @ mtgtop8.com
Red & White & Blue ->Standard Jeskai Midrange decklists @ mtgtop8.com