MTG thread
- Thread starter brekk
- Start date
Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 7,912
- 12,564
Its not just Juzam, its all older creatures.
I doubt any creature from ABU would get played in standard if they were made legal. They are all poor by todays standard. Even the fabled sedge troll is kind of meh.
Juzam was also facing swords to plowshares, easily the most played removal spell of the era.
Considering swords makes 95% of current powerhouse creatures cry, poor all Juzam never had a chance at greatness.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 27,051
- 71,556
It's not like there weren't creature decks being played. The deck Zack Dolan used to win the first world championship had 11 creatures in it and he was on a sorta Stasis / control stategy. There were quick Juzam / Juggernaut decks packing Armageddon, URG zoo decks with kird ape and serendib efreet + channel fireball, Abyss decks with artifact dudes, etc.
But you've also got those eras where Balance was unrestricted and dudes were not something you could play. Later the really good control decks start showing up with with Moat, Disrupting Scepter, Blood Moon and Circle of Protection Red (Brian Weismann's The Deck type of things) that were backed up with backed with Plow, Counterspell, Disenchant, Mana Drain. It takes all of 1996 to start to get really damn good control decks fine with just playing draw-go forever. Shit, let's just track down that deck -
Twenty-eight mana sources, value engines, removal, soft locks, City of Brass / Mirror Universe, Amnesia. This deck is sweet for 1996.
But you've also got those eras where Balance was unrestricted and dudes were not something you could play. Later the really good control decks start showing up with with Moat, Disrupting Scepter, Blood Moon and Circle of Protection Red (Brian Weismann's The Deck type of things) that were backed up with backed with Plow, Counterspell, Disenchant, Mana Drain. It takes all of 1996 to start to get really damn good control decks fine with just playing draw-go forever. Shit, let's just track down that deck -
Twenty-eight mana sources, value engines, removal, soft locks, City of Brass / Mirror Universe, Amnesia. This deck is sweet for 1996.
Koushirou
Log Wizard
- 4,845
- 12,172
Dunno about it as a commander, but it seems like a neat card at least and the flavor is cool. That bant deck is looking pretty solid so far.
As for Thespian Stage, I'd imaging since you'd have two legendaries with the same name, regardless of type, one would poof. Would instantly make a 12/12, though, if you wanted to speed it up since the EtB wouldn't happen. Could Solemnity it as well.
Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 7,912
- 12,564
I knew about the copying without counters, but somehow I didn't remember you lose 1 of both lands before the "no counters" ability is resolved, as you own 2 identical legendaries while its on the stack.
Its been too long since I played competitively I guess, and MTGO autoresolves these things.
I'm still not sure what happens if you have the legendary creature version in play and play the land. They aren't identical legendaries if they are different types and since its an always on kind of ability it doesn't use the stack ? Seems like a new rules issue specific to this card.
Its been too long since I played competitively I guess, and MTGO autoresolves these things.
I'm still not sure what happens if you have the legendary creature version in play and play the land. They aren't identical legendaries if they are different types and since its an always on kind of ability it doesn't use the stack ? Seems like a new rules issue specific to this card.
Koushirou
Log Wizard
- 4,845
- 12,172
Sterling
El Presidente
- 12,955
- 7,854
Enzee
Trakanon Raider
- 2,197
- 715
eh.. If we are saying specifically only ABU, yes many of the creatures sucked. So did many of the spells. The initial intent of the game was that power was balanced by rarity, and that no one would ever have 4x of any card they wanted.
That said,
Hypnotic Specter
Llanowar Elves
Lord of Atlantis
Nether Shadow
Black Knight
White Knight
Savannah Lions
Birds of Paradise
Veduran Enchantress
are all good enough to be played in current standard, some recent standard environments, or see/have seen play in modern/legacy.
Honorable mentions/Great in Limited:
Elvish Archer
Sedge Troll
Giant Spider
Goblin King
Juggernaut
Mahamoti Djinn
Nettling Imp
Orcish Artillery
Personal Incarnation
Prodigal Sorcerer
Roc of Kher Ridges
Royal Assasin
Sengir Vampire
Serra Angel
Shivan Dragon
Vesuvan Doppleganger
Will o the wisp
Also, regarding rarity balance, I forgot that Cockatrice and Thicket Basilisk are the same card, but one is better due to rarity. Both 2/4 deathtouch for 3GG, but cockatrice has flying. Though, I suppose for the purposes of the old lure combo, basilisk was actually better.
The reality is that most of the cards in ABU just sucked, creatures and non-creatures. Did you see the beta draft at GP Vegas? There'd be like 2-4 playable cards in a pack, and half the guys had to run 20+ lands just to get up to 40 playable cards. LSV made the finals running 3 or 4 colors and somewhere around 22 basics just to support all the colors.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 27,051
- 71,556
Mirage block, Tempest block, and Urza block are each so full of nonsense that cards like Uktabi Orangutan, Nekrataal, and Man O War are barely an afterthought. Visions alone had Squandered Resources, Vampiric Tutor, Summer Bloom, Prosperity, Natural Order, and Goblin Recruiter. Each one of those cards would be nutso for a period time at least once.
And it's really a one-two punch. Creatures that have spells or value stapled onto them in conjunction with fast mana/engines/tutors/disruption/locks being pushed to the back. They've still got to make X amount of cards per year and substantial areas of design space that have been walled off as far as standard is concerned. If you don't like slugging it out on the board with dudes and planeswalkers than standard isn't all that interesting but it's game play that they can make tons and tons of cards for.
For me Modern looks about what I want Magic to look like. It has all of the traditional archetypes as well as little time capsule decks. You've got your U/W base control decks, burn, there's a discard deck, tron, R/G land destruction, reanimator, etc. All classic archetypes. Did you like Affinity? Infect? They've been updated but they're here. Standard's a bunch of goodstuff decks battling it out on the board with dudes and walkers and dudes that are also walkers. It is interactive gameplay that people enjoy but I like some of the parts of MtG that are bullshit.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 429
Llanowar elves is currently legal and a 4x, but for just straight up beaters yeah you're correct.
Dragon Whelp could have some potential in a new standard if the format shook out right.
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,327
- 21,142
And that's pretty much why magic can't die. It's a shapeshifter that's everything for everyone. Even if one or two formats are ass, it's killing it elsewhere. Even if someone doesn't like one thing, they can find something else that draws them in. Can't afford legacy? Pauper is sweet and has most major archetypes represented. Want new decks to fight against all through the calendar year and are okay with burning $$? Standard's got your back. Salty hipster that wants to play magic in an environment that rewards deck building skill instead of netdecking? Limited's your play. Have a specific era in Magic's past that you consider superior to all others? Build that cube or themed EDH deck, friend. Do you want to focus on mastering one deck to levels of familiarity and meta-awareness where your otherwise tier 2 pile operates like a tier 1 murder machine? Modern's got about 117 different decks you can choose to attempt this with.
It's a ridiculously good game, no matter how hard the company itself tries to be a pile of shit or fuck the game up.
Last edited:
- 4
Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 7,912
- 12,564
Pretty sure Hasbro could make billions of the franchise, as long as they add a small list of their most recent 200 fuckups, and indicate the game is still doing well despite their continued failures and faggotry.
Mass Effect didn't survive, and its not like that was a small franchise.
Mass Effect didn't survive, and its not like that was a small franchise.
- 1
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,327
- 21,142
They posted the commander decklists, and everyone's bitching because it's only $80-130 worth of cards for $40.... vs the $70-75 worth of cards for $35 is pretty much was like clockwork previously. I think some people expected $200 value commander piles with Three Visits and shit.