New Progression Server confirmed
- Thread starter krysanth
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Fun times today, watched apok wipe for 4 hours (1 hour into other guilds window) on Ct + Draco, then ROE didnt even care to mobilize or notice that Apok was taking their time up. Now watching FP try to kill it and wipe.. CT+draco have been up since 1 pm est and now its almost 8 pm est. Casuals wot?
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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In the current method that has to be player managed with these gigantic variances - yea.
Only rotation that didn't seem to be a paperwork nightmare was Stormhammer - but that's because it really was just a schedule for forced spawnings more than a normal rotation.
I still can't see how they can't tell how much this sucks for the playerbase versus whatever half-assed instancing they could rush out instead. But my care level is minimal now, quit Lockjaw and just crossing my fingers they've got a consistent plan in place for the NoBox server. Maybe I'll be back in Kunark or so if the NoBox ruleset sucks ass though - with current expected times Kunark should be out the same time as all the NoBox info is finalized anyhow.
Ultimately for the record the reason I quit was Laura/Ryuko being deofficered over rumors that she did something that went against the rules (at least that's the best we were able to get from Harcourt - who as demonstrated above... seems to miss things - Gremin who did the demotion never spoke a word to either of us on it) - which I'm unaware of anything that she did that would've actually been but "Weeee" the nature of PaperworkQuest - and likely MM trying to use a something stupid they heard or heard wrong as leverage to try to mess with Faceless. [And if it was the pity loot that Darth gave to Corvid to hand out she wasn't even online at that point - and if I was I missed him mentioning it to /gu]
Player managed rotations, if they solve any drama at all, cause nearly as much for quite a while - and even once finalized and set they're still going to have renewed chaos each new expac which isn't that long of a process thanks to the TLP format.
Worst... fix... ever...
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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Player run rotations are infinitely better because a group of players can say "No, fuck you. That rule is ridiculous" and if people are shitting up a server we can say "No, fuck you. You're out of the rotation." DBG enforcing rotations allows inane and counter-intuitive rules to exist and it allows toxic players to find comfort. The server cannot have outcasts because it's turned into a welfare line.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I might be inclined to agree in the longrun. In the shortrun it's horrid for growing pains.
Seriously, false rumors shouldn't be something that a guild leader trashes a friendship of 10 years over without a word - sure part of that is his fault - but part of that is the serious penalties tied to what those rumors could trigger.
(And keep in mind, my comparison was SOE run as in Stormhammer - which didn't actually rotate - it was just a schedule of forced spawnings via GM. Effectively instancing from a player perspective since interference wasn't allowed)
Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Player run rotations have no chance of working in 2015.
The incentive for the strong to break any rotation is simply to great once number of guilds in a rotation exceeds three. Two or three guilds of roughly equal strength benefit by having rotations once you go past three guilds loot starts being spread thinner and thinner amongst guilds and relative strength of guilds diverge until you clearly reach point where weaker guild are killing rotation mobs they would never have gotten a shot at in a FFA environment.
At that point the stronger guilds have no reason to continue in a rotation. When they would do far better without it, and continuing with it just means problems will get worse as more guilds join.
The incentive for the strong to break any rotation is simply to great once number of guilds in a rotation exceeds three. Two or three guilds of roughly equal strength benefit by having rotations once you go past three guilds loot starts being spread thinner and thinner amongst guilds and relative strength of guilds diverge until you clearly reach point where weaker guild are killing rotation mobs they would never have gotten a shot at in a FFA environment.
At that point the stronger guilds have no reason to continue in a rotation. When they would do far better without it, and continuing with it just means problems will get worse as more guilds join.
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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The problem you outline is instantly solved by having a set % of FFA. It's why our original rotation had 50% FFA mobs, no matter how many guilds joined the rotation the people capable of breaking it would have no incentive to do so. The issue was with DBG enforcing rotations the other guilds know that if they lose they have no need to improve their raid style, leadership or anything else. They just need to change the rules.
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Are they nerfing draco and ct this week? I mean yesterday was interesting. CT spawned at 1 pm est, and who kills him? TL does. Why? Because no one from 1 pm est to 2 am est could do it. Yep, he went through two time slots into FFA + 1 hour FFA lockout for us to get the shot to kill the sob. So that was apok, roe, fp, roe that couldnt do it.
Insult to injury, the second guild to "try" in the EU time slot didnt even show up. Then they ended up being the second guild to "try" in the NA time slot and showed up. Talk about a circus, they (ROE) didnt even care that Apok was 1 hour into their EU time slot, taking 4 hours to try to kill CT + draco.
Seems pretty exploitable, like hey we'll turn our heads apok so you can get more time and we wont lose our spot cause we couldnt mobilize or get the kill (like apok). Cause yeah if you go and cant do it, then it rotates to the next person eh?
Insult to injury, the second guild to "try" in the EU time slot didnt even show up. Then they ended up being the second guild to "try" in the NA time slot and showed up. Talk about a circus, they (ROE) didnt even care that Apok was 1 hour into their EU time slot, taking 4 hours to try to kill CT + draco.
Seems pretty exploitable, like hey we'll turn our heads apok so you can get more time and we wont lose our spot cause we couldnt mobilize or get the kill (like apok). Cause yeah if you go and cant do it, then it rotates to the next person eh?
Good thing we don't have instances and get to deal with all this retarded bullshit instead.
The new lockjaw rotation is extra retarded, whoever offered up that 24hr window thing as an idea needs to be shot, its gonna result in like 50% less boss spawns for sure.
The new lockjaw rotation is extra retarded, whoever offered up that 24hr window thing as an idea needs to be shot, its gonna result in like 50% less boss spawns for sure.
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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The other day AD wiped to Inny with 77 people for two hours. We came in and scooped it up. MM had like 22 deaths on their last Nagafen kill. You'd think these guilds would want more FFA days so they could at least blame us for taking the mobs rather than having to face their own incompetence for two straight hours.
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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We just had Cazic up for 15 hours as it rotated through 4 guilds. It spawned at like 11:00 AM EST on a Sunday, we had to wait until the middle of the night to kill it when it went FFA.
