No Man's Sky

hodj

hodj

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Running Dog_sl said:
Some company is now claiming they have a patent on the formula used by NMS to create it's terrain.



Why No Man's Sky fans are worried about a patented Superformula Eurogamer.net
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Full article is interesting. It does not sound like they are interested, necessarily, in shutting down the game, though if they are denied a seat at the table aka profit sharing of some sort, then they very well may be able to go that route legally due to the patent issue.

But overall, it sounds like they are interested in a dialogue, because Hello Games has implemented the formula in a way they were attempting to do so already, basically, and they'd like to exchange knowledge and get a piece of the pie.

If I was Hello Games, I'd probably have my lawyers in talks with their right now to make that happen.
 
hodj

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Noodleface_sl said:
I did not know you could patent formulas, huh
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I didn't either, but you can't patent the application of them apparently sooooooo.......yeah not sure what the point is.

Patent law is like realities' absurdist painting genre.
 
Skanda

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My whopping 5 minutes google search says you can't patent mathematical formulas in the US. But since both parties are from the dark continent only witchcraft laws apply.
 
Caliane

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Yeah... this sounds like that kind of bullshit, patenting/copyrighting the word Scrolls, the word Elder, the word Edge, Namco's idiotic loading mini game patent, etc.

 
Caliane

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Yeah... this sounds like that kind of bullshit, patenting/copyrighting the word Scrolls, the word Elder, the word Edge, Namco's idiotic loading mini game patent, etc.

 
meStevo

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They literally just got over (settled) one of those issues, with the word Sky being trademarked by BSkyB. This seems a bit more specific and instrumental to the creation of the game (with Sean Murry going as far as boasting at one point how finding this formula made things possible).
 
Dandai

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I don't know if you guys care for an explanation or just want to bitch, but trademark laws in the US are interpreted fairly loosely. The reason that there are seemingly frivolous suits over petty "infringements" like Sky and Scrolls is because if you don't put a token effort into "defending" encroachment of your trademark/IP then you open yourself up to malicious use/theft of your trademark/IP. A savvy lawyer can demonstrate that you didn't mind when Hello games used your trademark, and a judge may well agree that you can't show prejudice towards some infringement and not others. After that ruling you would no longer own exclusive rights to your trademark/IP (which may or may not mean the end of your company).

Yeah, it's legalese bullshit, but it actually does make sense as to why the cease and desist letters get sent (and then the cases - at least the ones I'm familiar with - are often settled amicably out of court). The recent WoW vanilla server kerfuffle is another high profile example of trademark law in action.
 
Big Phoenix

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No the system is pretty fucking retarded. Being able to own the rights to a basic word is just dumb.
 
R

Running Dog_sl

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For clarification, you cannot patent a mathematical formula in Europe or the USA. What you can do is patent an application of a formula, in both Europe and the USA, and that is what this company has apparently done in both territories.

Roughly speaking, you can't say "pay me money to use this formula" but you can say "pay me money to use this formula for drawing 3D graphics representing natural scenes"
 
hodj

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Running Dog_sl said:
For clarification, you cannot patent a mathematical formula in Europe or the USA. What you can do is patent an application of a formula, in both Europe and the USA, and that is what this company has apparently done in both territories.
Click to expand...
Why No Man's Sky fans are worried about a patented Superformula Eurogamer.net

The next, crucial question is, does Hello Games have to license the superformula in the first place? Here there seems to be a dispute, with some claiming yes, it does, and others saying no, it doesn't,because you can't patent the application of an equation.
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R

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hodj_sl said:
The next, crucial question is, does Hello Games have to license the superformula in the first place? Here there seems to be a dispute, with some claiming yes, it does, and others saying no, it doesn't, because you can't patent the application of an equation.
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That's simply wrong, the specific application of an equation is exactly what you can patent - which is why the company was set up, and granted patents in Europe and the USA, like this one:

Patent US7620527 - Method and apparatus for synthesizing and analyzing patterns utilizing novel ... - Google Patents

...the relevant bit is in the synthesis section starting with "the super-formula can be used to adapt the selected shapes, to calculate optimization, etc. This step can include use of: graphics programs (e.g., 2D, 3D, etc.); CAD software; finite element analysis programs; wave generation programs; or other software." and then going on to define more and more examples of use.

The dispute will be over whether the patents cover the use in NMS, since it seems to focus on CAD, CAM and finite element analysis and doesn't mention games, but does talk about "graphics programs" which is probably too general. This is where the lawyers will make their money.
 
hodj

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Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification, that's why I pointed out the contradiction, hoping you'd expound on it more.

Like I said, these types of laws are absurdist painting to me. Completely obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.
 
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Running Dog_sl said:
That's simply wrong, the specific application of an equation is exactly what you can patent - which is why the company was set up, and granted patents in Europe and the USA, like this one:

Patent US7620527 - Method and apparatus for synthesizing and analyzing patterns utilizing novel ... - Google Patents

...the relevant bit is in the synthesis section starting with "the super-formula can be used to adapt the selected shapes, to calculate optimization, etc. This step can include use of: graphics programs (e.g., 2D, 3D, etc.); CAD software; finite element analysis programs; wave generation programs; or other software." and then going on to define more and more examples of use.

The dispute will be over whether the patents cover the use in NMS, since it seems to focus on CAD, CAM and finite element analysis and doesn't mention games, but does talk about "graphics programs" which is probably too general. This is where the lawyers will make their money.
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From what I've read there's absolutely no chance this patent holds up if it's actually challenged for several reasons:

1) You have to patent an actual specific implementation of an abstract idea. There's no actual specifics here outside of the formula which you can't patent.
2) You have to come up with a novel, non-obvious implementation. Nothing about this couldn't be done by just about any skilled programmer.
3) And last but not least, saying "do this abstract thing on a computer" does not fly at all anymore.
 
Bandwagon

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Dandai_sl said:
I don't know if you guys care for an explanation or just want to bitch, but trademark laws in the US are interpreted fairly loosely. The reason that there are seemingly frivolous suits over petty "infringements" like Sky and Scrolls is because if you don't put a token effort into "defending" encroachment of your trademark/IP then you open yourself up to malicious use/theft of your trademark/IP. A savvy lawyer can demonstrate that you didn't mind when Hello games used your trademark, and a judge may well agree that you can't show prejudice towards some infringement and not others. After that ruling you would no longer own exclusive rights to your trademark/IP (which may or may not mean the end of your company).

Yeah, it's legalese bullshit, but it actually does make sense as to why the cease and desist letters get sent (and then the cases - at least the ones I'm familiar with - are often settled amicably out of court). The recent WoW vanilla server kerfuffle is another high profile example of trademark law in action.
Click to expand...
I felt like I actually learned something today. Thanks Dandai, and thanks for not making it 12 paragraphs long.
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