No Rest For The Wicked - A Souls Like ARPG

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Which are?
Real-world timers to do town upgrades on top of the already hefty grind to get the materials required and a daily/weekly quest slog instead of just being able to do what you want when you want. Why would anyone put mobile/MMO/GAAS features into a game that is none of those things?
 
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jooka

marco esquandolas
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haven't they alluded to the game eventually being online? Thought I've heard something or another about that being a thing eventually, so while those features don't make sense now they could in the future?
 

elidib

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Good interview, kinda explains why the MMO-Lite stuff is in, because he does want to focus some on group play.

I think fundamentally, for a game so focused on story, you can't make the gameplay too annoying and ball-busting. A wider audience that just wants to get immersed in the world, invested in the story, and see what happens to the characters is going to feel like the gameplay is a slog just to get to the next story beat.

Just make difficulty modes and let people turn down the difficulty by tuning the easier difficulties NOT to lower HP and damage, but do things like make parry windows longer, make shields block more base damage, make the enemies lock on a little earlier in their animations so that you can dodge away easier.
 
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Oblio

Utah
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I don't like the building timers, but they aren't so oppressive that they outweigh all the great things about the game. There is so much to do in this game I don't even think about them honestly. The dailies and weeklies are totally optional and do not progress the story line, the only ones that are of any importance are the ones that give you ichor. You can just start a new realm and kill the first boss in 5 minutes and max out all your storage that way, sometimes you will get the daily to kill the guy in town and that is another quick ichor.

These are minor issues overall, not enough to give an early access game a negative review IMHO. Obviously people are entitled to their opinion, they like what they like. I am excited for co-op and the eventual release. To me this game is Link to the Past meets Dark Souls.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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I don't like the building timers, but they aren't so oppressive that they outweigh all the great things about the game. There is so much to do in this game I don't even think about them honestly. The dailies and weeklies are totally optional and do not progress the story line, the only ones that are of any importance are the ones that give you ichor. You can just start a new realm and kill the first boss in 5 minutes and max out all your storage that way, sometimes you will get the daily to kill the guy in town and that is another quick ichor.

These are minor issues overall, not enough to give an early access game a negative review IMHO. Obviously people are entitled to their opinion, they like what they like. I am excited for co-op and the eventual release. To me this game is Link to the Past meets Dark Souls.
I got a couple of buddies that are playing it but I'm holding off until 1.0 finally comes out. Figure at that point everything will be ironed out, or hopefully.

It's interesting that you conpare it to probably my favorite Zelda game and dark souls. I'm honestly pretty excited about it, especially if I can play multiplayer. I've only watched a handful of videos about it but it looks good, and once in the finished state, I'll probably pick up.
 

Oblio

Utah
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I got a couple of buddies that are playing it but I'm holding off until 1.0 finally comes out. Figure at that point everything will be ironed out, or hopefully.

It's interesting that you conpare it to probably my favorite Zelda game and dark souls. I'm honestly pretty excited about it, especially if I can play multiplayer. I've only watched a handful of videos about it but it looks good, and once in the finished state, I'll probably pick up.
It's really a good game and they are only going to dial it in more and more before they launch. One thing I thought was cool, is that they are talking about getting rid of stat distribution, like strength, health, faith etc and just have classes you build into.



Hey folks,
Posting this here so people can already contribute a little bit to what I’ve laid out. And yes, we will still make changes to all this and yes, some of this stuff you might not agree with (“Why is Barbarian set to Plate, have you ever seen Conan?!?!”
:rofl:
), but here goes:

High-Level Class Breakdown

Single-Attribute Classes (16)

Strength (4)

  1. Brute
  • Description: A savage fighter swinging single-handed axes with brute force.
  • Weapon: Axes (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Warlord
  • Description: A battlefield champion wielding colossal great axes to dominate foes.
  • Weapon: Great Axes (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Barbarian
  • Description: A raging berserker smashing enemies with massive two-handed clubs.
  • Weapon: Great Clubs (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Sentinel
  • Description: A disciplined spear guardian controlling mid-range with greatspears.
  • Weapon: Greatspears (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate

Dexterity (4)

  1. Swashbuckler
  • Description: A flamboyant duelist flourishing one-handed curved swords.
  • Weapon: Curved Swords (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Fencer
  • Description: A precise rapier master specialized in pinpoint thrusts.
  • Weapon: Rapiers (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Archer
  • Description: A long-range specialist who rains arrows from powerful great bows.
  • Weapon: Great Bows (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Rogue
  • Description: A cunning sneak who dual-wields daggers, striking unseen.
  • Weapon: Double Daggers (Two-Handed, dual-wield)
  • Armor Type: Cloth

Faith (4)

  1. Cleric
  • Description: A supportive devotee healing allies and striking with a trusty mace.
  • Weapon: Maces (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Monk
  • Description: An unarmed ascetic delivering two-handed gauntlet combos infused with faith.
  • Weapon: Gauntlets (Two-Handed, dual-wield style)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Flagellant
  • Description: A fervent zealot punishing foes (and self) with a scourge.
  • Weapon: Scourge (defaulting to One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Exorcist
  • Description: A holy banisher swinging a censer to repel evil spirits.
  • Weapon: Censer (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth

Intelligence (4)

  1. Sorcerer
  • Description: An elemental mage brandishing single-handed wands for potent spells.
  • Weapon: Wands (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Mage
  • Description: A grand conjurer channeling large-scale magic through two-handed staves.
  • Weapon: Staves (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Priest
  • Description: A devout caster reading sacred tomes to invoke holy or arcane power.
  • Weapon: Tomes (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Oracle
  • Description: A visionary wizard harnessing orbs for swift, fateful spells.
  • Weapon: Orbs (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth

Combined-Attribute Classes (24)

Strength + Dexterity (4)

  1. Pugilist
  • Description: A quick brawler smashing foes with single-handed clubs.
  • Weapon: Clubs (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Squire
  • Description: A balanced fighter wielding straight swords for agile-meets-strong combat.
  • Weapon: Straight Swords (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Lancer
  • Description: A polearm user controlling crowds with sweeping halberd strikes.
  • Weapon: Halberds (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh
  1. Marksman
  • Description: A crossbow sharpshooter leveraging STR+DEX for lethal ranged attacks.
  • Weapon: Crossbows (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh

Dexterity + Faith (4)

  1. Ascetic
  • Description: A spiritual martial artist dual-wielding nunchucks with fervent skill.
  • Weapon: Nunchucks (Two-Handed, dual-wield)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Pilgrim
  • Description: A wanderer of faith employing a two-handed bo staff for fluid combos.
  • Weapon: Bo Staffs (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather
  1. Vanquisher
  • Description: A holy exorcist controlling mid-range with a single-handed whip.
  • Weapon: Whips (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh
  1. Blademaster (Moved here)
  • Description: A devout swordsman wielding curved great swords for elegant devastation.
  • Weapon: Curved Great Swords (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh

Strength + Faith (4)

  1. Knight
  • Description: A stalwart champion swinging massive two-handed great swords in holy cause.
  • Weapon: Great Swords (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Paladin
  • Description: A righteous guardian crushing foes with a single-handed hammer.
  • Weapon: Hammers (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Crusader
  • Description: A divine warrior wielding greathammers to smite evil with unwavering zeal.
  • Weapon: Great Hammers (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Dragoon
  • Description: A lithe spearman harnessing faith-based leaps to pierce defenses.
  • Weapon: Spears (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh

Strength + Intelligence (4)

  1. Templar
  • Description: A plate-wearing battlemage channeling spells via one-handed scepters.
  • Weapon: Scepters (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Mystic
  • Description: A runic swordfighter enchanting a single-handed “mystic blade.”
  • Weapon: Mystic Swords (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Spellwarden
  • Description: A sturdy caster brandishing huge greatstaffs for arcane shockwaves.
  • Weapon: Greatstaffs (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Plate
  1. Contortionist
  • Description: A flexible martial artist bridging raw brawn with psychic power, dual-wielding extended arm bands.
  • Weapon: Arm Bands (Two-Handed, dual-wield)
  • Armor Type: Leather

Dexterity + Intelligence (4)

  1. Assassin
  • Description: A precision killer reliant on single-handed daggers for lethal strikes.
  • Weapon: Daggers (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Ninja
  • Description: A swift shinobi using single-handed wakizashis and ninjutsu.
  • Weapon: Wakizashis (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Samurai
  • Description: An honorable warrior handling two-handed katanas with disciplined technique.
  • Weapon: Katanas (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh
  1. Trickster
  • Description: A crafty bomb-maker hurling illusions and specialized projectiles from a “trick bag.”
  • Weapon: Trick Bag (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Leather

Faith + Intelligence (4)

  1. Reaper
  • Description: A dark harbinger scythe-wielder merging necrotic spells and unholy fervor.
  • Weapon: Scythes (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh
  1. Necromancer
  • Description: A grave conjurer who summons undead via a two-handed bonestaff.
  • Weapon: Bonestaff (Two-Handed by default)
  • Armor Type: Cloth
  1. Witch
  • Description: A hex-caster using a single-handed rod to lay curses and illusions.
  • Weapon: Hex Rod (One-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Mesh
  1. Plague Doctor
  • Description: A masked alchemist spraying toxins or cures at mid-range with two-handed bellows.
  • Weapon: Bellows (Two-Handed)
  • Armor Type: Cloth

One-Handed vs. Two-Handed Counts

One-Handed Classes (20)

  1. Brute (Axes)
  2. Swashbuckler (Curved Swords)
  3. Fencer (Rapiers)
  4. Cleric (Maces)
  5. Flagellant (Scourge, default)
  6. Exorcist (Censer)
  7. Sorcerer (Wands)
  8. Priest (Tomes)
  9. Oracle (Orbs)
  10. Pugilist (Clubs)
  11. Squire (Straight Swords)
  12. Paladin (Hammers)
  13. Templar (Scepters)
  14. Mystic (Mystic Swords)
  15. Assassin (Daggers)
  16. Ninja (Wakizashis)
  17. Dragoon (Spears)
  18. Witch (Hex Rod)
  19. Trickster (Trick Bag)
  20. Vanquisher (Whips)

Two-Handed Classes (20)

  1. Warlord (Great Axes)
  2. Barbarian (Great Clubs)
  3. Sentinel (Greatspears)
  4. Archer (Great Bows)
  5. Rogue (Double Daggers)
  6. Mage (Staves)
  7. Lancer (Halberds)
  8. Marksman (Crossbows)
  9. Blademaster (Curved Great Swords)
  10. Knight (Great Swords)
  11. Crusader (Great Hammers)
  12. Spellwarden (Greatstaffs)
  13. Samurai (Katanas)
  14. Reaper (Scythes)
  15. Necromancer (Bonestaff)
  16. Pilgrim (Bo Staffs)
  17. Monk (Gauntlets)
  18. Ascetic (Nunchucks)
  19. Contortionist (Arm Bands)
  20. Plague Doctor (Bellows)



Also...


Patch 1 Preview – What We’re Working On Next​

Hey folks,
We’re getting close to wrapping up Hotfix #4, and once that’s out the door, we’re going to slow things down a bit to focus on more substantial changes. Patch 1 will be the first of those bigger updates.
This post is a breakdown of what we’re aiming to get into Patch 1—some of it’s polish, some of it’s structural stuff, and a lot of it comes directly from the feedback you’ve been giving us since the launch of Breach.
I just went over some of the internal discussions we had and used ChatGPT to make a nice little summary. This stuff is still subject to change, but I thought it’d be helpful if everyone would get a first idea of what we’ve been discussing internally.

Realm Tiers (Difficulty Options)​

One of the bigger ideas we’re testing is the introduction of Realm Tiers—basically a difficulty system. This came out of internal discussions around how Elden Ring hit a much broader audience than previous Souls games, partly because it was more accessible.
We want to give players the ability to pick a tier that feels right for them. This should make the early game less punishing for new players while still allowing more experienced folks to crank up the challenge.

Native Utility Runes​

Utility Runes aren’t used too much by players even though they’re incredibly useful! We see a lot of players complaining about running out of food, not even realizing that there are other ways to heal yourself already implemented, so we wanna address that in a cool way.
Here’s what we’re changing:
  • You’ll have access to a basic “heal aura” rune by default (bound to RT + X).
  • You’ll be able to equip up to 4 utility runes at Eleanor’s that are always available, no matter what weapon you’re using.
  • The gesture wheel is moving to Hold Select, and tapping Select will still bring up the map.
This should clean up the whole “utility stick” problem and make utility runes a lot more desirable.

Free Fast Travel Between Whispers​

One of the more common requests: Let us fast travel between discovered Whispers.
So that’s exactly what we’re doing. In Patch 1, you’ll be able to travel freely between all unlocked Whispers, not just the last one you touched. I’ve recently talked about my hesitations about Free Fast Travel and mentioned that it might hurt the ALIVE system, but since the ALIVE System doesn’t have all the features we ultimately want yet, we will make this change for now.
Also, ultimately we will allow players to customize their realms so that we create more of a D&D feeling where players can get a ton of replayability out of playing Wicked with different rulesets each time. I think that’ll be especially cool for Co-Op!

Gem Extraction at Eleanor​

We’re adding a way to remove gems from weapons at Eleanor. Currently, once a gem is slotted, that’s it—it’s locked in. In Patch 1, you’ll be able to extract them and try different builds without worrying about ruining a weapon.

Ledge Protection for Rune Attacks​

We already have some ledge protection in place for normal melee combos, but rune attacks still let you fling yourself off cliffs way too easily.
That’s getting addressed. Rune attacks will no longer ignore ledge safety.

Fall Damage Tweaks​

The current fall damage formula is pretty punishing. If you drop off something slightly too high, you get chunked hard.
We’re easing that curve so smaller falls don’t hurt so much. You’ll still die from extreme falls (so no cheesing), but the in-between stuff will feel fairer.

Ranged Gameplay Pass​

A lot of feedback came in around how ranged builds feel punished right now. Having everything cost Focus means you’re constantly forced into melee just to regenerate.
We’re looking at separating that out:
  • Basic ranged attacks (bows, basic spells) will use stamina instead of Focus.
  • We’ll tune damage and attack speed to avoid ranged builds deleting enemies before they reach you.
The goal is to let ranged feel like a valid playstyle again. This one is difficult and might not make it, but we’re trying our best to address this issue!

Input Delay Fixes​

Some users have recently reported some Input Delay issues. We’re investigating and will fix that.

Parry Feedback Improvements​

We’ve heard that parrying doesn’t feel as satisfying as it could—especially when compared to games like Sekiro or Elden Ring.
This is mostly a presentation issue (VFX, SFX, camera shake), so we’ll do a quick polish pass to make parries hit harder and feel better to land.

Loot That Matches the Challenge​

Right now, loot is fully RNG, even from hard-to-reach shinies. That doesn’t feel great.
We’re marking certain shinies as “special”, and giving them a much better loot table. If something was a pain to get to, it should have a better shot at giving you something good.

More Weekly Bounties & Challenges​

There are currently not enough weekly quests—and once you finish them, that’s it until the reset.
We’re going to add more weekly bounties and challenges to fill that gap and give players more goals to chase between major content drops.

Missing Tutorials​

A lot of tutorials didn’t make it into the Breach update. We’re adding those in for Patch 1 so that key systems are explained properly. That won’t solve everything, but it’s a start.
More comprehensive onboarding is still something we’ll look at separately.

Better Grinding Flow​

There’s been a lot of feedback that farming for resources feels grindy compared to how often you’re actually fighting things.
We’re looking at a few things here:
  • Rebalancing drop rates and crafting costs.
  • Possibly adding little interactive mechanics (think Paper Mario-style timing events) to make farming a bit more active and fun.

More Side Content Post-Sacrament​

Right now, when players hit Sacrament, the only next step is Nameless Pass, which is a pretty steep level jump if you’re coming in early.
We want to add something in between—some kind of optional content that helps players level up a bit without just sending them back to old zones.

Cleaning Up Realm Cheesing​

People are still creating fresh realms just to re-farm items they couldn’t find in their main one. That tells us we need to:
  • Make loot drops more predictable.
  • Make it obvious where to find what (e.g., if you need gems, do this, if you need plague ichor, do that, etc).
Every major activity in the game should be a solid farming path for something specific.

Housing: Chest Carpets + Naming​

Small QoL thing, but useful for decorators:
  • We’re adding small carpets you can place under your chests, with icons to help you remember what each chest is for.
  • Stretch goal: Allow naming chests so you don’t have to memorize your layout.

Final Notes​

Patch 1 is shaping up to be a pretty big one, and most of what’s in here came directly from player feedback—so thanks for continuing to share your thoughts and frustrations. We’re listening, and we’re excited to keep pushing the game forward with you.
Let us know what you’re most looking forward to, and we’ll keep you posted as we lock things in.
— Thomas
 
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Oblio

Utah
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Dr.Retarded Dr.Retarded I might have suggested this to you before, if you want something that will give you that Link to the Past feeling, check out Death's Door.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Dr.Retarded Dr.Retarded I might have suggested this to you before, if you want something that will give you that Link to the Past feeling, check out Death's Door.
I don't think do you have but I'll check it out, especially with the summer sale coming up, and the fact that my now have a controller for the PC. I kind of skipped a lot of games because I was always mouse and keyboard, but I guess the last one I played was blasphemous.

I also realize I'm not very good at games that require a controller anymore.

I just remember back in high school I never had an SNES, and somebody in our group of friends did, and he lent it to everybody at different periods of time because he picked up an N64, and that's how I got to play a link to the past. It really was such a fun game back then.

And with his N64, it was going to Blockbuster and renting WCW wrastlin' or playing Golden Eye, and you would make fun of anybody who picked Odd Job. God damn the times were simpler. That WCW game four player though was just as fun if not more entertaining. Just fun and hilarity would ensue.
 
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Fuz

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Real-world timers to do town upgrades on top of the already hefty grind to get the materials required and a daily/weekly quest slog instead of just being able to do what you want when you want. Why would anyone put mobile/MMO/GAAS features into a game that is none of those things?
Oh yeah, that sounds bad and an unexplicable design choice. Shame because the game looks pretty good Apart from the ugly monkey arms, I really wish they get back on track.