Overwatch

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Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,018
2,233
Reinhardt charge counters Bastion completely. It's great.
Unless you charge while he's looking away though, he can gun you down before you reach him. It can counter him sometimes, but it's not a reliable one unless you can make sure he'll be distracted with say, a flying Pharrah shooting rockets at him from another position, or if you're like Rainman and you count his bullets to know when he's reloading.

Torbjorn is in a really weird spot, I don't even think he's good even with turret 3. A lot of the time, at least in the games I play, people just melt the turret even with his ult up and shit, there's just so many ways to do it, it's not like Bastion at all imo. First Bastion does more damage than even the turret3. Second, the turret is dumb as shit and only tracks one person, and tracks pretty slowly if you have fast movement. You can bait it on a tank, make it lose tracking with Genji dash or Tracer blinks, and just overall fuck with it. The second aspect is you can kill Torbjorn pretty easily, even with his ult on, because he generally doesn't do anything at all but stand next to his turret. Even with the ult on I think Tracer one shots him with her ult, or it's pretty close, and if he's standing next to the turret, the turret also almost dies.

He's just not good, not even as good as Bastion which I already find kinda shitty tbh, though the random Bastion swap on defense on last objective can be quite the mindfuck and get you a full teamwipe because people didn't expect it.

His weapon is kinda alright, like the single shot has drop so it's a bit annoying to aim properly, but it does surprisingly good damage I find and the amount of shots before you have to reload is great. Maybe if they straightened it a bit more like a fully charged Hanzo arrow it'd be easie to aim for headshots, and potentially increased the damage a bit. The shotgun is awful, it does less damage than shooting the primary, the only upside is it's kinda easier to aim which is a terrible tradeoff for doing less damage I think. It should have damage dropoff like a normal shotgun, but do more damage. Shit also eats your ammo like crazy. It's basically like a very bad Roadhog primary. It does 100dmg for the whole thing hitting iirc, while in comparison Roadhog does 220, and to be honest the range aspect is arguably also better on Roadhog, at least at mid range(but long range you're not hitting shit but idiots with the primary gun on Torbjorn). So this part needs buff to make it worth using, or need to be removed to make room for something else.

Then the whole scrap and upgrading the turret system sucks. I think they should just make the turret a static lvl 2, and upgrade it to lvl 3 during your ult(maybe make it better too than current). Lvl1 turret is literally nothing, it has shit for health and does ridiculously laughable damage, so you NEED a lvl 2 turret to do anything, which you can't get that easily due to scraps nonsense. Lvl3 upgrade is kinda meh too other than the health, it adds rockets that do good damage but are avoidable and don't shoot very often.

Then his armor buff is also shit. It's like a very shitty Symmetra shield. Just remove the whole thing and give him a new skill, or make it better and not dependant on scrap. Armor aura, armor dispenser(automatically gives armor to people in range), some shit like that, or just change the concept to work better with the rest of the rework. Maybe a temporary shield for your turret, very short but if you time it right, it prevents it from exploding from Tracer's ult and shit, maybe.

They said they had plans to experiment next year(I assume that means january) with Torbjorn, so we'll see.
 

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,295
11,938
Ya, Torbjorn needs some love. His turret is much easier to deal with than a bastion due to a lack of shields. Plus Bastion can heal himself during downtime. While you can heal your turret with Torbjorn while under fire, you can't heal yourself easily, so if you get gibbed, then your turret will die as well. Almost any tank can beat the shit out of the turret (Winston is really good at it). Then you are pretty much useless until you can pop molten core to rebuild a level 3 turret again quickly. Tossing out armor is also restricted to molten core pops or if somehow have lots of scrap and a level 3 turret already, so it comes across as a seldom used skill.

Torbjorn is strong against noobs, but there are a ton of counters to him. Except for a couple unique situations, Bastion typically makes a much better turret, especially since you can manually select targets and there is virtually no damage drop off at super long range. He's basically a chaingun sniper as exists.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
11,941
11,350
I just have a problem with Bastion's long range accuracy. Other than that he's not an issue.
 

Cinge

Vyemm Raider
6,986
2,050
Imo make Bastion have Dva's damage range drop off. Maybe not as severe.

So you have less Bastions sitting way in the back tucked in a corner covering entire LoS and they have to actually plant forward if they want to kill people outside medium range.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
They could definitely add a damage dropoff for Bastion, I could see that. Not his ult though, I feel like his ult is completely fine. It even gives a loud as fuck noise to alert everyone it's happening.

As for Torbjorn, he's definitely garbage right now and blizzard knows it. There's a video posted a few days ago of Tigole talking about the game / a lot of hero balance stuff and he mentions how weak Torbjorn is right now. Tweaks coming early next year.

 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,163
32,743
I think I've seen Bastion be a pain enough to have to actually deal with maybe twice. Not sure that's OP but whatevs...
 

drtyrm

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,991
155
I could see how to newer players that don't know the maps too well getting at Bastion could be a rough lesson to learn.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
11,941
11,350
There are several spots on the maps where you can prop up in a corner and be untouchable as Bastion. I just ragequit a match because of it.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,163
32,743
I don't know, most of the time I can just Pharrah jump over the shield or someone will just ult dumb dragon thing or whatever.
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,537
3,772
Most newbs are all trying to be snipers so they can't counter Bastion. He just wrecks them from the same range faster than they can pew pew.

LOL@ that guy's post about balance complaining about Symmetra though. Really? Symmetra? REALLY?

One person I hate is Tracer because you have to focus fire her dead or one-shot her or she can mostly undo all the damage you do to her. Luckily most people just zoom around spraying their gun and suck. The good ones though... man... they're a fucking pain.
 

Derpa

Trakanon Raider
1,984
633
Most newbs are all trying to be snipers so they can't counter Bastion. He just wrecks them from the same range faster than they can pew pew.

LOL@ that guy's post about balance complaining about Symmetra though. Really? Symmetra? REALLY?

One person I hate is Tracer because you have to focus fire her dead or one-shot her or she can mostly undo all the damage you do to her. Luckily most people just zoom around spraying their gun and suck. The good ones though... man... they're a fucking pain.
Yep, for the good ones I tend to switch to roadhog to hook kill or junkrat
 

bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
The game has grown on me a lot, it can be pretty fun when both teams have some idea but I would still really prefer they make better objectives/maps than what they have. I basically abuse Tracer unless I need to play another role, other than being 1 shot there is just no counter to her. Lucio is beast too. It's actually a lot better than my very first impressions but they still need to do a lot to convince me it's worth buying and shouldn't be a f2p game.
 

Cinge

Vyemm Raider
6,986
2,050
If it was f2p I'd have to buy heroes, no thanks(and don't say they wouldn't). I'd rather pay box and get all of them.
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,537
3,772
Just played a match in Hanamura. Defending team was: 2 Junkrats, 2 Bastions, 1 Tjorbor, 1 Tracers.

It was the worst experience of my life. We had no reaper and our tracer would get shot down after killing one Bastion. The Junkrats just spammed explosives down the hallways. Complete pain in the ass.

Edit: Here's a link to my Reinhardt play of the game which felt so good I peed and came at the same time:

https://twitchdown.nightdev.com/down...244302s655e705
 

Cinge

Vyemm Raider
6,986
2,050
Just played a match in Hanamura. Defending team was: 2 Junkrats, 2 Bastions, 1 Tjorbor, 1 Tracers.

It was the worst experience of my life. We had no reaper and our tracer would get shot down after killing one Bastion. The Junkrats just spammed explosives down the hallways. Complete pain in the ass.

Edit: Here's a link to my Reinhardt play of the game which felt so good I peed and came at the same time:

Twitch
Lol that's awesome. I like doing that with lucio, stand right by the right exit and push people off the cliff as they come out ;P