Overwatch

Enob

Golden Knight of the Realm
413
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Not sure what Blizzard is thinking with Attackers vs Defenders. Looking at the Masteroverwatch combat logs for seasonal play shows only 2 defenders (Bastion and Junkrat) average more damage than attackers. They're following closely by Pharah, Soldier, Reaper, and Roadhog. Whats the point of being a defender if the attackers can out damage you and often have better mobility. I just don't know sometimes...
Attackers have projected damage downfield (Soldier 76, Pharah, McCree) or are flankers (Genji, Tracer, Reaper). Defenders have zone control down lanes (Hanzo, Widow, Bastion) or zone control on points (Junkrat, Mei, Torbjorn).
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
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3,816
I only won 6/10 and got rank 57. I should just Soldier carry dum-dums regardless of build every fucking game.
 

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
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I'm watching Gods stream atm, and I think if he was a rando player who I queued into and watched his kill cams I'd swear to god he had walls.

I don't know if he just has that good awareness and prediction, but it's pretty uncanny. I dunno man.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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Yeah leavers in the sub 40 group seem pretty bad. My friend is a bit of a tilter (doesnt know when to quit) and went from 50 to 38 in the last coupla days, was complaining that the groups were a lot worse so he let me play a few on his account to see. First game, offensive toblerone the entire game, did absolutely nothing. Next game, we win first point on route 66 (a widow was just standing shooting me on 20 hp, not even sniping just shooting in the open), and after they wipe their entire team leaves except two people. Just absolutely unreal how quickly people seem to give up, and no-one enjoys that shit. Next few games were fine for leavers, but massive amount of salt and people telling other people what classes to play when their ever-so-confident choices were bullshit. We had a zen on offense and I was gonna ask him to change it up but everyone seems so prickly and uncompromising i just said fuck it and ran lucio myself, and we totally coasted to victory. Id wager if the people stuck in lower ratings made intelligent choices to the powerful meta picks and got their team to do the same, that alone would be enough to get them out of that bracket. But no, that hanzo isn't gonna play itself eh.
Yea this is common in every single game with a ranked queue. The lower you go, the more ragers/leavers/etc. But this makes it easier to carry games as a Solo player too since if you can more easily "tilt" someone on enemy team. Focus in on an enemy and just keep killing on sight, that's 100% guaranteed way to tilt a lower ranked player. Tilt is your friend at lower ranks. Chances are they'll continue fucking up, or will just leave.

I posted 2 weeks ago about my own night of tilt where I dropped 7 ranks (49 to 42). I was playing on 4 hours sleep and had been awake for close to 20 hours. Not the best idea
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But in exactly 14 days I've gained 16 ranks, all Solo. Since that one night I decided to be more reasonable with the times I play... try to be rested, not stressed, have clear state-of-mind. I also cut back how many I play, some days only playing 0-2 games.



Not sure what Blizzard is thinking with Attackers vs Defenders. Looking at the Masteroverwatch combat logs for seasonal play shows only 2 defenders (Bastion and Junkrat) average more damage than attackers. They're following closely by Pharah, Soldier, Reaper, and Roadhog. Whats the point of being a defender if the attackers can out damage you and often have better mobility. I just don't know sometimes...
As someone else mentioned, most of the defenders are about zone control. You don't need to outright kill people, you just need to pressure them and focus on thwarting their big pushes. I played Junkrat, Mei, and Torb last night on successful defenses 3 separate occasions. Junkrat provides insane pressure, but it's not as focused. Reason he tops damage charts is obvious. The splash damage racks up quickly, but he's still very squishy and needs some backup to stay alive. If enemies get past the choke you may have a tough time as a Junkrat.

I played Torb because my team only had to hold Point A to win Hollywood, we already pushed cart to end, so going Torb meant enemy team needed an extra objective to deal with (kill turret). Forcing enemy team to split focus means you can more easily thwart their advances. And when I play Torb I go the Seagull approach: drop turret somewhere and then get in their face. I don't stand back hammering away at my turret. When it dies I build it somewhere else. Then get back to the frontlines. Torb's attacks do crazy damage.

Mei also lacks in the damage department, but she eats up so much of the clock that it can mean wins. Went to Sudden Death on Route 66 and had to defend. Enemy team took point A rather easily first time around when I was on a different hero (Junkrat). Went Mei for Sudden Death simply to eat up as much clock as possible. Only 1:45 on the clock for Sudden Death so it's not too difficult, just have to hope your team wipes them once. We did and I walled off their advances to get back to cart... her wall and Ult are huge Zone control tools. I'm always walling off paths and forcing enemies into chokes.

So yea, imo the defensive heroes have no issues at all.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
I don't get why they added sudden death in its current state, like who actually thought it was a good idea. Both teams get the last cap, one gets it 5 minutes faster, and it still goes to sudden death. Now one team caps in sudden death and it's like YEAH THEY WON without giving the other team an extra shot. Like... every single game ever in history whether it's sports or videogames gives both sides a chance but nope, not overwatch, not superior blizzard.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
They've admitted its terrible. I wish they'd just revert back to the random KotH. That felt more fair were the better team would win. Sudden death is just too coin flippy (lul) for if you get attack or defense.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
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6,763
I know they've admitted it but they need to change it now and not wait a season. I don't know why they implemented it like this in the first place considering Tigole goes on and on about how he's been a huge competitive fps fan for decades
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
606
I don't think they had a ton of stuff to pull from for Overwatch in terms of predecessors implementing the rule set. Sure competitive TF2 favored stopwatch but stopwatch has it's own set of problems. It is fair but it isn't very exciting. I feel the timebank system (which sounds like it is coming to Payload s2) is a far better evolution of stopwatch. But other than that competitive FPS was either 1v1 fragcount, team based DM, team based CTF or CS's rules which couldn't apply.
 

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
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I think time bank is great for pure payload, but it's going to suck dick for hybrid imo. Still too much potential for draw there
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
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Ok, I can confirm that they did something with the leaver penalty.

I only have 1 game with leavers so far today...the leaver(2 of them) were on the other team so it was 6 vs 4 for my team and we won. I got about 20% of a rank, which seems to be about half of normal and about 4 times what it was before at 5% when there was a leaver.

I am kinda hoping to have more games with leavers to see how it affects the team who has a leaver and loses, which hasn't happened yet, or the rare team that has a leaver but still manages to win.

They definitely changed it though.

Edit: I had a second game where there were leavers on the other team, and I got regular XP this time as the winner on the full team.

Edit 2: A third game as the winner with leavers on the other team and got a full rank of xp.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
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They would do well to have a few unique KOTH "sudden death" maps just for some nice variety. Just a single control point.
 

Kharza-kzad_sl

shitlord
1,080
0
Still some bugs with it. I played a match, typical random bunch of terribads. Someone bailed in the first 5 minutes or so. Stuck it out to see what I'd lose:

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Valderen

Space Pirate
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Leaver doesn't seem to affect rank xp now to be honest, or not much...I got anywhere from about 20% to a 100% rank for wins when there is a leaver, and 60% in the 2 games I was on the losing team, which seems to be about normal rank xp. I haven't really compiled to see if the games had underdogs or not, if they were steamroll, or my personal performance. Just looked at win-loss. Seeing the range of xp gained or loss, it would seem to be normal and not affected by leavers.

Kharza-Kzad, if you lost a full rank...you might have been the favorite by a few ranks. On PTR right now, teams often have 2-3 ranks difference unlike live where it's usually just 1.

Someone will have to do a more in-depth research...but again, it seems to me that rank xp is not affected by leavers, or not much if it is.
 

Kharza-kzad_sl

shitlord
1,080
0
I guess the new way tries to be fair to the winning team, fixing the people leaving in the last few minutes to troll the winning team. Before the fixes the winning team would gain 5% or so, and the losing team would lose the normal amount.

I suppose in a system like this everything should add up to zero at the end of the match. The old way ended up with a negative number, with "points" vanishing from the system.

Player perceptions though... I guess one side is always going to feel cheated.

Season bans for leavers should help, if they ever get around to doing it.
 

Hex

Lord Nagafen Raider
404
389
Probably going to see some friend request SPAM just realized I haven't added like 70% of the list of people on the front page of this thread :p Wish you could put notes on your invites, gotten a few requests from people on here that aren't on the list so i'm kinda like "Who is this?"
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
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Looks like there isn't a lot of people on the PTR today, I'm ranked 45 on the PTR....and today I was put in groups or against groups that ranged from 55-79.

I feel so out of place.
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