Overwatch
- Thread starter Caliane
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Xalara
Golden Squire
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Re: Pharah. A good Pharah will require multiple people to take down. Obviously you need a Soldier 76 or McCree but you will also want a Zenyatta or an Ana helping you.
If you want to climb play Zenyatta. He's a DPS that shreds tanks and heals. This is my wife's first fps and she's at 3300 and still climbing by just playing Zenyatta.
Edit: It probably helps that the solo queue meta is very favourable for a Zenyatta.
If you want to climb play Zenyatta. He's a DPS that shreds tanks and heals. This is my wife's first fps and she's at 3300 and still climbing by just playing Zenyatta.
Edit: It probably helps that the solo queue meta is very favourable for a Zenyatta.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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I don't know what the 'fix' is. I think people always think they're better than they are. Most people are plat/gold. This makes it seem like most people are now plat. So they got it sugar coated. I honestly want to know more than anything what determines the SR reward/punishment at the end of games and if 10 qual matches mean anything past Season 1.
Dandain
Trakanon Raider
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Ranking systems are never satisfactory to people. The important thing about it is if players are actually being ranked with like skill players that result in 50% winrate. The only players that hold on to 52-54-60+ or greater winrates must exist in the top percentiles. Watching that video, its all about feels, but if a player is actually getting sufficiently better they will climb. People certainly overestimate their own skill, but most of that comes from the fact that when anyone is trying to climb its pretty common to not understand what is being done wrong, or more importantly, insufficiently good enough to result in ELO increases. The top 7 of 15 ranks in Rocket League contain about 8% of the playerbase. The top 3 contain .7%. Dota and league are similar even if they don't represent your position with the same metrics. Dota has a number, where while the most insane outliers have reached 9000 from 60-70% winrates 4k-9k is still less than 5-10% of the population of players.
Blizzard definitely has shown they want their players to "feel" good about themselves for being less good at their games than they believe. They seem to have a consistent pattern of belief that people will quit if the game tells them they are bad. But what they fail to realize is that anyone who will play a 100% pvp game regularly is already a gamer who is ok with losing far more than your average, single player/WoW gamer. Such a player doesn't mind this fact, they are drawn to the challenge of human opposition. What is a dilemma in this system, is if its intentionally misrepresenting peoples skill underneath the hood when it makes games. Do people want to believe that platinum games are full of both people who are borderline gold and also borderline diamond, or are people just looking for reasons why the system is broken and they aren't as good as they think.
If the match maker is actually creating extremely wide ELO spread games such as borderline gold and borderline diamond players in the same games this is all wrong. For example, In Dota until you approach 4.2k rating the MMR spread of 10 people who will be matched will vary less than about 100-200 rating total. Once you hit 4.5k, Dota games are filled with players with as much as 700-1200 rating differential because there are just so few players sufficiently good to fill these games in less than hours of wait time.
Blizzard definitely has shown they want their players to "feel" good about themselves for being less good at their games than they believe. They seem to have a consistent pattern of belief that people will quit if the game tells them they are bad. But what they fail to realize is that anyone who will play a 100% pvp game regularly is already a gamer who is ok with losing far more than your average, single player/WoW gamer. Such a player doesn't mind this fact, they are drawn to the challenge of human opposition. What is a dilemma in this system, is if its intentionally misrepresenting peoples skill underneath the hood when it makes games. Do people want to believe that platinum games are full of both people who are borderline gold and also borderline diamond, or are people just looking for reasons why the system is broken and they aren't as good as they think.
If the match maker is actually creating extremely wide ELO spread games such as borderline gold and borderline diamond players in the same games this is all wrong. For example, In Dota until you approach 4.2k rating the MMR spread of 10 people who will be matched will vary less than about 100-200 rating total. Once you hit 4.5k, Dota games are filled with players with as much as 700-1200 rating differential because there are just so few players sufficiently good to fill these games in less than hours of wait time.
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I think the placements this season have been pretty good. It's just how they deal with the toxic players now. It was going to take more than two seasons to get this shit right placement wise and I think they really hit the nail on the head this time around. When you hook up with a bunch of like players that want to win it's almost impossible to want to go back to QP even if you lose. Comp is that fun at least to me. When a toxic player gets involved ugh Comp seems like the worst thing ever.
However they resolve the toxicity factor now will really turn it around for comp play.
It's not even ad hearing to the tank meta(which needs to go badly). I've had some Comps go the way I didn't think they would go so you never know.
However they resolve the toxicity factor now will really turn it around for comp play.
It's not even ad hearing to the tank meta(which needs to go badly). I've had some Comps go the way I didn't think they would go so you never know.
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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The level of toxicity has gone up big time since hitting 2000.
When I was below that and grouped with bronze, silver and gold...sure there was a few toxic players once in a while but kit often. The group composition were bad,one talks but it seems to be generally easy going.
As I climbed it got worse, now I'm generally with silver, gold and platinum players and it's awful...I think this is when people are getting very serious and start thinking they should all be platinum or diamond players. Every other game someone seems to be losing his shit, and starts insulting people. That said, group composition is generally pretty good now, and people talk a bit more although still not a lot.
I can almost always tell if we're gonna win or not within the first few seconds just by the level of communication. If people talk and call stuff, extremely high win rate, if they don't we're likely to lose.
I think Blizzard did a good job with the ranking this season, the level of competition seems to always be pretty even. It's not perfect and even it was people will never be happy with it anyways.
The biggest problem at my rank is Pharah, the aim of people is generally not good enough to be really shut down a good Pharah, and on some maps she can carry a team to easily. I do understand it's not an issue at higher ranking when people can aim better though, so not sure what the solution would be. It's not on all maps though,
When I was below that and grouped with bronze, silver and gold...sure there was a few toxic players once in a while but kit often. The group composition were bad,one talks but it seems to be generally easy going.
As I climbed it got worse, now I'm generally with silver, gold and platinum players and it's awful...I think this is when people are getting very serious and start thinking they should all be platinum or diamond players. Every other game someone seems to be losing his shit, and starts insulting people. That said, group composition is generally pretty good now, and people talk a bit more although still not a lot.
I can almost always tell if we're gonna win or not within the first few seconds just by the level of communication. If people talk and call stuff, extremely high win rate, if they don't we're likely to lose.
I think Blizzard did a good job with the ranking this season, the level of competition seems to always be pretty even. It's not perfect and even it was people will never be happy with it anyways.
The biggest problem at my rank is Pharah, the aim of people is generally not good enough to be really shut down a good Pharah, and on some maps she can carry a team to easily. I do understand it's not an issue at higher ranking when people can aim better though, so not sure what the solution would be. It's not on all maps though,
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I didn't even know the ranking system was under much scrutiny. You can't really compare OW to LOL.
Biggest reasons is because ...
OW is a Dynamic Queue which LoL has proven is shit. They brought back Solo/Duo because Dymanic Queue is retarded.
You can't reliably measure skill when you have Solos and full groups in the same ranked system
OW relies on much more teamwork than LoL.
LoL has "carries". They get stronger with items/levels and can single-handily carry games.
A really good OW player can carry but even really good OW players are at some mercy of their team.
LoL starts as mini 1v1 & 2v2 games
OW is always a team game
How would you put the bulk of OW players into Bronze->Gold? It wouldn't change much at all.
Like he says, the system does work. "Feels" is whatever.
Git gud.
(I'm stuck in Plat, FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu)
Biggest reasons is because ...
OW is a Dynamic Queue which LoL has proven is shit. They brought back Solo/Duo because Dymanic Queue is retarded.
You can't reliably measure skill when you have Solos and full groups in the same ranked system
OW relies on much more teamwork than LoL.
LoL has "carries". They get stronger with items/levels and can single-handily carry games.
A really good OW player can carry but even really good OW players are at some mercy of their team.
LoL starts as mini 1v1 & 2v2 games
OW is always a team game
How would you put the bulk of OW players into Bronze->Gold? It wouldn't change much at all.
Like he says, the system does work. "Feels" is whatever.
Git gud.
(I'm stuck in Plat, FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu)
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It is toxic cause you have idiots that dont switch classes when they're not carrying their weight. Its so frustrating to spend 4-5 rounds to win 20 points then turn around and lose it in a 10 minute game cause one of your dps wouldnt switch or cause a tank didnt want to play reinhardt etc. Just amazes me some of these people make it to diamond and its still a problem in diamond. They need to bring back a way to avoid these players, either by report or blocking makes them ineligible to be on your team, but not on the opposing team (so you cant block good players).
Most people are going to be near their maximum potential and most people are average. If you want to start people out lower so they can improve every season it'll be the same scenario where he's saying the pros are upset with a higher rank because they got inflated.
I have been and remain flabbergasted at the focus on rankings and how everyone should be moving up the longer they play.
I have been and remain flabbergasted at the focus on rankings and how everyone should be moving up the longer they play.
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I dont know if they should be moving up the longer they play, it just baffles me how some games you have people that know what they're doing and they work together. Other games you have a widow that just plays solo and doesnt add anything to the team, or a tracer that cant get any kills and refuses to swap. I see that and I'm like how did they get here and how are they still here?
SorrowsEnd
Trakanon Raider
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People who play Widow for any reason at all needed banned from quick play and competitive.
It is a team game. Your fucking worthless sniper contributes nothing. Go play battlefield you stupid shit.
It is a team game. Your fucking worthless sniper contributes nothing. Go play battlefield you stupid shit.
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Nabassu
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I've played with widows that have completely dominated matches. I think more appropriately just remove shitty players that don't contribute
gauze
Molten Core Raider
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Lol the widow hate XD Wait until you play against someone like Kephrii.
Anyways, as far as the elo system goes. What he says isn't the whole truth but if they back ended some of the curve would do a bit more in pitting people who need to be pitted. There are obviously more things to take into consideration than the whole I am good, I climb, or climb as I get better. Shit like attitude/toxicity should factor heavily, but who knows how they will apply that. A simple rating system would do wonders, but 2complicated too much abuse.
There are people in Masters, GM, Top500, who shouldn't be there. I'm not saying this because I think oh i'm almighty, but legit, if you see the people up here.. you wouldn't realize you were out of your own current elo.
Even though its not a great example, because who the fuck that is any good play csgo comp. Earlier in the year.. they fixed/adjusted the curve, a similar hill curve hill rather than a back ended one. It use to be where both GE and S1 were relatively the same in competition of population. I mean shit, S1 accounts were selling for way more than GE accounts because it was simply that hard to get into. It wasn't just placing the population in certain area's, it was how rating was rewarding and punished. I don't know the exacts on how they fixed/adjusted it, but a lot of people who bragged that they were LE LEM, but absolute garbage fell to MG/GN real fast.
It's minor but playing games in GE, you would expect close games that were something like anywhere from 8-16 or 14-16, but you were getting 16-0, or 16-3 games back to back; games full of GE/SUP.
Regardless, how that relates to OW is there are still turds left and right even at high elo. Lack of general knowledge and an increase of inflated ego. I'm sure those people do have some form of mechanical skill, I cant deny that but I think Blizzard is extremely fixated on appropriate queue times to avoid the sometimes upward to longer than 10 minute queues that you'd see in Masters/Challenger via league.
Anyways, as far as the elo system goes. What he says isn't the whole truth but if they back ended some of the curve would do a bit more in pitting people who need to be pitted. There are obviously more things to take into consideration than the whole I am good, I climb, or climb as I get better. Shit like attitude/toxicity should factor heavily, but who knows how they will apply that. A simple rating system would do wonders, but 2complicated too much abuse.
There are people in Masters, GM, Top500, who shouldn't be there. I'm not saying this because I think oh i'm almighty, but legit, if you see the people up here.. you wouldn't realize you were out of your own current elo.
Even though its not a great example, because who the fuck that is any good play csgo comp. Earlier in the year.. they fixed/adjusted the curve, a similar hill curve hill rather than a back ended one. It use to be where both GE and S1 were relatively the same in competition of population. I mean shit, S1 accounts were selling for way more than GE accounts because it was simply that hard to get into. It wasn't just placing the population in certain area's, it was how rating was rewarding and punished. I don't know the exacts on how they fixed/adjusted it, but a lot of people who bragged that they were LE LEM, but absolute garbage fell to MG/GN real fast.
It's minor but playing games in GE, you would expect close games that were something like anywhere from 8-16 or 14-16, but you were getting 16-0, or 16-3 games back to back; games full of GE/SUP.
Regardless, how that relates to OW is there are still turds left and right even at high elo. Lack of general knowledge and an increase of inflated ego. I'm sure those people do have some form of mechanical skill, I cant deny that but I think Blizzard is extremely fixated on appropriate queue times to avoid the sometimes upward to longer than 10 minute queues that you'd see in Masters/Challenger via league.
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Yeah had a widow named Mercy, claims her main has 150 hours of widow and she wanted to hit diamond or master playing only mercy, then that didnt work so now she snipes on that account, named Mercy. Carried my games everytime she's played with us, always widow. I get theres some amazing snipers out there but when they arent, they need to swap =P
If you ever see her though, get her riled up and she'll talk with her broken accent calling all of you pussies and to grow some balls. hilarious
If you ever see her though, get her riled up and she'll talk with her broken accent calling all of you pussies and to grow some balls. hilarious
Xevy
Log Wizard
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Widows are annoying as fuck if your team has no physical awareness. She can easily be countered 1/2 the time by just LOS. Hide from her. 2/3 of the team doesn't need to play up front and she's not going to wreck the tanks. That said, people rarely know how to counter a Widow when it comes to killing her, which is a major problem. A Winston/Widow/Genji/DVA should make it their job to shut the Widow down if she's murdering everyone. A good DVA can make her life hell unless her team makes sure to completely support her.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I think it's the fulfilling thing in the world as a Pharah main that when I get on a roll that 2-3 people will change things up to take me out. Typically though it's really not based on my skill when i'm having my best game but comes down to how good our tank is managing choke points and the folks on the ground are keeping people in complete disarray. I can usually tell as a Pharah what kind of night i'm going to have based on the how Reinhart is playing and our main DPS. If they're on their game, i'm going to have a big night. If i'm sucking, regardless how everyone else is playing, I switch over to Mercy.
I placed at 1245 doing all 10 PUGs. I was able to grab one good group that helped me win 4 in a row. All I have played in Season 3 are my placement matches and those came after a pretty long hiatus due to WoW:Legion.
If you guys ever need a decent Pharah/Mercy let me know. Been fun getting back into things after a few months. Forgot how much I love this game.