Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Remove minimap and immersion-breaking floating numbers and I'm in.

I'd rather have a reasonable combat log.
VG craptastic minimap wasn't bad, but I'll take no mini map over GPS. I actually like floating numbers. Means I don't have to check my log andcan stay looking at the world. Useful if you happen to forget your guy was equipped with a pick axe not a sword when you logged the night before.
 

Tinius_sl

shitlord
3
0
Luckily for you there's tons of games that are repeating the same thing we've seen over and over with exclamation points, quest hubs, "purplez" and every class being able to solo to max level as the most viable path.
Well, I think he does have a point. Many of the users that post in this thread just want this game to be exact copy of EQ 1999, maybe with few alterations. That won't work, not in 2014. Not even as a niche game. It might be funded, it might get enough players, it just won't last. Why? Once that awesome feeling of nostalgia and reliving days of old will wear down, people will get bored. Why? Because they've beaten that horse already and they did it multiple times.

Basically, you are right with general philosophy. But if Pantheon wants to succeed (whatever that means), it must find a way to combine this philosophy of old MMOS with new mechanics and be kind of innovative as well, instead of being EQ 1999 copy.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Well, I think he does have a point. Many of the users that post in this thread just want this game to be exact copy of EQ 1999, maybe with few alterations. That won't work, not in 2014. Not even as a niche game. It might be funded, it might get enough players, it just won't last. Why? Once that awesome feeling of nostalgia and reliving days of old will wear down, people will get bored. Why? Because they've beaten that horse already and they did it multiple times.

Basically, you are right with general philosophy. But if Pantheon wants to succeed (whatever that means), it must find a way to combine this philosophy of old MMOS with new mechanics and be kind of innovative as well, instead of being EQ 1999 copy.
Thats why most of are playing emulators of some sort right? I may be wrong because I selfishly started my own server, p99 was doing quite well. There are thousands and thousands of us who are STILL playing the original Everquest. It won't be a "WOW killer", but there has been a strong following and a need for this type of niche game since Vanguard went under.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
One of the big things that I miss from the old days of EQ was sitting in a group socializing while the puller went and grabbed mobs. This social interaction is what made EQ more real to me rather than just a game. As soon as WoW and EQ2 came around, I was constantly moving through dungeons. Kill mob, move, kill mob, move, kill mob, move... non stop. There was no time for socializing what so ever. I rarely knew anybody in the groups anymore than I did before joining the group. They were just random tank, random healer, random dps, etc.

I would love if there was viable group content in the game that was optimal for the old style of "pull to camp" combat. Give those people that like to crawl their dungeons as well.
seems like there will be some instanced run through dungeons in the design based on Brad's suddenly gaining access to a new dungeon in order to level comment. But I am with you in preferring camp and pull non instanced dungeons so I hope there will be some of those as well. If they do have both types, loot should be better in the contested non instanced dungeons. I'd be fine with a split of better item loot found in non instanced and class abilities/spells but poorer loot in instanced dungeons.
 

Tinius_sl

shitlord
3
0
Thats why most of are playing emulators of some sort right? I may be wrong because I selfishly started my own server, p99 was doing quite well. There are thousands and thousands of us who are STILL playing the original Everquest. It won't be a "WOW killer", but there has been a strong following and a need for this type of niche game since Vanguard went under.
Actually, my judgement comes exactly from experience with these emulators. I have alot of friends who are oldschool gamers and tried them. At first, everything was cool, but in a few months, they left. Of course there is number of players that do not leave but is that enough for a new game to live on? Few thousands ain't that big number. But you might be right of course, I just don't see it so.
 

Amaru_sl

shitlord
36
0
seems like there will be some instanced run through dungeons in the design based on Brad's suddenly gaining access to a new dungeon in order to level comment. But I am with you in preferring camp and pull non instanced dungeons so I hope there will be some of those as well. If they do have both types, loot should be better in the contested non instanced dungeons. I'd be fine with a split of better item loot found in non instanced and class abilities/spells but poorer loot in instanced dungeons.
The word "instance" makes me cringe.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
27,054
41,442
^^ Me too!

Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.
 

Lethality

Lord Nagafen Raider
78
0
One thing about the glory days of EQ, or whatever game you popped your cherry with... They were appealing because there were many unknowns. About the world, about the game mechanics, etc.

And any new game will still have their share of unknowns, but that sheer sense of wonder in the early genre is probably gone forever. It doesn't mean some of the mechanics and systems weren't good ideas, but it will be very hard for *any* new MMORPG to escape the general tropes of the genre and truly surprise us with a new adventure. In my opinion of course.
smile.png
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
27,054
41,442
One thing about the glory days of EQ, or whatever game you popped your cherry with... They were appealing because there were many unknowns. About the world, about the game mechanics, etc.

And any new game will still have their share of unknowns, but that sheer sense of wonder in the early genre is probably gone forever. It doesn't mean some of the mechanics and systems weren't good ideas, but it will be very hard for *any* new MMORPG to escape the general tropes of the genre and truly surprise us with a new adventure. In my opinion of course.
smile.png
This is why it will take a truly groundbreaking game to get this feeling again. something totally fresh and new which basically scraps all the old mmorpg pitfalls and does everything with a fresh new twist on it.

Like EQ next is aspiring to be from what I read about in the beginning days seems to fit this bill. (Not sure of now because I have not been following it.)
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
^^ Me too!

Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.
VG2 but with some instances, eq loot, combat in-between eq and vg (with otdt and virtual group targeting). Very interested to see how the combat improvements will play out.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
^^ Me too!

Merlin, this wont happen. If you are expecting EQ 1999 with a fresh graphical overhaul, good luck. I can almost guarantee you that this game wont be anything near it.
I don't think any of us are looking for EQ again. All we want is "the list" followed. By the list I mean, our great wishlist we have been constructing throughout this thread. Vanguard was not Everquest 2 but if it had been mechanically sound, it fits quite of few of the wishlist demands and would have been quite successful. I am very confident Brad will create a very good game and while it will not be a "wow killer", it will have a very strong following.
 

Tinius_sl

shitlord
3
0
I don't think any of us are looking for EQ again. All we want is "the list" followed. By the list I mean, our great wishlist we have been constructing throughout this thread. Vanguard was not Everquest 2 but if it had been mechanically sound, it fits quite of few of the wishlist demands and would have been quite successful. I am very confident Brad will create a very good game and while it will not be a "wow killer", it will have a very strong following.
I agree with this sentiment. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it would be good for this game to be too similar (ie almost identical copy) to the old EQ.
 

Amaru_sl

shitlord
36
0
I want to see no flying mounts. I hate the way they make the world feel safe and small. Yea you could fill the sky with killer pigeons to still make it feel dangerous while flying, but that is a bit dumb imo. I also prefer to play an MMO where upgradable/customizable ground and boat mount systems are in place. If you have those and then put flying mounts in it basically makes everything else obsolete. (I imagine people will wtf flame me for this)
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
All we want is the impossible to obtain feeling of being young and stupid again. How much do we gotta kickstart for a partial lobotomy or maybe one of those new Eternal Sunshine memory erasers.
 

Whidon

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,880
2,906
All we want is the impossible to obtain feeling of being young and stupid again. How much do we gotta kickstart for a partial lobotomy or maybe one of those new Eternal Sunshine memory erasers.
The KS for a time machine back to spring 99 would blow up... 90% of those posting here would be buying the alpha access tier.
 

Mur_sl

shitlord
234
0
I want to see no flying mounts. I hate the way they make the world feel safe and small. Yea you could fill the sky with killer pigeons to still make it feel dangerous while flying, but that is a bit dumb imo. I also prefer to play an MMO where upgradable/customizable ground and boat mount systems are in place. If you have those and then put flying mounts in it basically makes everything else obsolete. (I imagine people will wtf flame me for this)
Totally agree, I hate flying mounts. Better to have some odd ball fast travel modes, like the OT hammer, or even something like the fire pots, in addition to drood/wizzy ports. Hell running to some of the damn portals to meet up with a porter was often exciting; flying mounts takes that away IMO.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
Oh please. GW2 is closer to Battlefield then Everquest. The entire fight mechanics is build around a spastic, how fast can you run, jump, and click buttons. Its great if your 14 I suppose.
I dont know how much you played GW2 but that sounds like a very initial opinion, once you knew the mechanics you stopped running like a panicked chicken usually. Anyway lets not derail this thread in that direction.


Someone mentionned automation systems of FF10/12 and it spawned something in my mind. I wonder if it would work, because that could change the gameplay of support/healer classes. Think of a simple combat system driven by auto-attack(s) (and possibly an auto-heal function for healers) then add an opportunity system layer where different roles gets visual notifications to react to something that happened or that is going to happen.

Exemple:
Warrior auto-attacks, position the spider for the group, then receives a warning that his target is readying a powermove. Warrior trigger his block move and mitigates damage of said powermove, so far, nothing gamebreaking, it's been seen before. Since the tank reacted in time, the powermove was countered and open a backstab opportunity for the rogue, also the move added a poison effect on the tank, healer receives a warning that a party member has been poisonned, his reaction might even determines the final effect of the poison (if not removed before 5 seconds, target is stunned for 10 seconds). Five minutes in the fight, the bard gets a warning that a mana user is running out of mana, he then trigger his mana song.

Basically, use opportunities to notify players that something requires their attention (instead of multiple UI elements) and to engage players in the fight like the rotation of skills was said to do when WoW came in. More engaging combat than EQ is good, but the bloating of skills and UI elements needs to be under control.
Doesnt sound much different from WoW. Depending on how elaborate the spells swill be, you dont really need UI warnings. If a froglok shaman starts gating you fucking stun it. If a defias wizard starts a fireball you either kick or it'll hurt. You can see that happening in the game in 3D, we just need to re-learn not looking at all the UI bells+whistles. In that regard GW2 did good for example, very minimalistic. You had to learn the boss mob animations to know how to react to attacks, usually through trial and error. I much prefer the dragon pulling his head back for 2 seconds and then breathing fire as the only warning, as opposed to my UI going bonkers.


Interesting thoughts, but in this day of AI being all the buzz, and what Sony is doing with Storybricks in EQN, it almost seems like leashing behavior is a relic, and the creatures/NPCs can organically sort of do what they "think" is best/that they desire to do. Can we expect advanced AI, maybe even the Storybricks engine, in PRotF I wonder?
I assume Storybricks is out of the question and advanced AI is putting resources into the wrong pool. Hence the request for a dozen or two simple behaviour patterns. Shouldnt take too much effort and add alot of immersion value.
 

MrGlory_sl

shitlord
31
0
To me limiting skills is just over-complicating something... let people put 1000000000 abilities on their bars if they want but design encounters around a subset. Either Limit or no Limit my fear of limits comes from games like GW2, neverwinter and stuff when they tell you where to slot certain skills ? Talk about retarded... that is when this shit goes to far.

To be clear even in limited "active abilities" situations, please do not limit WHERE abilities can go... that is just horrible and restrictive nonsense

I think you mentioned a sweet spot there, 24 abilities, 12 combat, 12 buff/other. If you are talking that number now you are basically getting a skill every other level assuming 50 levels... that's a pretty cool amount. I would see that as top end for a healer that does DPS, 6 heal/cures, 6 damage spells, then the other 12 for ( clickies, buffs, anything else you want to hotbar ).

I would imagine melee fighters would be less, likely 6-10 only needed at all.
I don't know I think perhaps less than that maybe five or six weapon abilities with auto attack and no more than 10 spell gems for casters and only for those toons that can cast some type of magic however, Don't do anything like GW2 that it auto gives you weapon abilities let us choose from the ones we have learned, also don't go the EQN route that each slot on the has a specific type of spell or ability that needs to go there (exp...defensive slot, offensive slot, movement and such),,,