I will donate once I see that "six months" of work doesn't equal a description of clerics that tells us they wear heavy armor and heal.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't like spaceships.. You're crazy for continually trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't want.. You need to cut that shit the fuck out lol
See, I equate better PVP to having world objectives and actual goals. Shadowbane had what I consider the best PVP design document ever created, but the game just was garbage.
EQ had ganking, but no rep system like UO, and also the class system really made PVPing weighted towards certain classes, while melee ones were either overpowered or completely underpowered depending on what expansion you are in at the time. Naked Wizards on Rallos anyone?
DAOC classes, realm ranks, and frontiers all made PVP fun and interesting. If I want mindless fighting of others, there are plenty of good FPS games for that. EQ PVP really was garbage to me, but to each their own.
EQ had ganking, but no rep system like UO, and also the class system really made PVPing weighted towards certain classes, while melee ones were either overpowered or completely underpowered depending on what expansion you are in at the time. Naked Wizards on Rallos anyone?
DAOC classes, realm ranks, and frontiers all made PVP fun and interesting. If I want mindless fighting of others, there are plenty of good FPS games for that. EQ PVP really was garbage to me, but to each their own.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Echoing that this phenomenon is why I loved EQ pvp. If you were killing someone, you were pvping, but if you managed to find some out of the way spot to exp, you were essentially still pvping.
Pirates of the Burning Sea had so much potential for resource control and strategic, server-wide teamwork. That merchant on your team could end up being more damaging in pvp than the people who do nothing but combat. It looked good and was fun for a while in beta, but shit the bed in the end, mostly because they tried too hard to design pvp instead of designing a world.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Yes. And all these things kept pvp from being a sterile, over-designed, practically scripted experience.
EQ had a rep system, it was call the reputation you gain from your actions and how people feel toward you as people, not as a UI ranking.
In EQ pvp there wasn't pvp and pve. It was all pvp. Your tank was great for pvp because he enabled you to group in dungeons and raid to get items that made you stronger when you were actually fighting someone. And that was the whole point.
I know some people like slap-fights where you don't start until someone says 'go' and can call time-outs and you call say 'uncle' when you want and everyone can giggle and enjoy Caprisun's afterward as friends. I'm not even going to say that is universally bad, just bad for me. In my opinion, though, games like Rift and GW2 aren't pvp any more than /dueling in EQ was pvp.
edit: and EQ pvp did have goals and objectives, and they were oddly similar to pve 'objectives' in the game: find friends and items so you have a chance at surviving.
Yeah, there's just not enough accountability for me. At least with a Kickstarter, if they fail to deliver, it's very public and damages the person's reputation (rightfully, IMO) forever. On a private site, there's just no way to know what's happening behind the curtain.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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An immersive MMO experience is what I want. That's why I was/am interested in this project, and that's why I post in the respective armchair development thread of the month.
I'm not married to Brad making that game though. I was certainly eager to find out what he has in store before the KS because he said he's going to make the game I want. Turns out he wasnt at all prepared for asking for money, nor does he or his team have much work done from all those months of preparation to "do it right", nor do they have a clear concept of the game they are making beyond saying "uh like EQ ... no I mean VG.. but with dungeon finder".
Now you tell me why I should believe he's capable of delivering the game I want without saying "it's him or no game at all". Because my life doesnt depend on the game being made and between a half-assed, no-effort show like they are putting up and no game at all, I'll probably settle for "no game" until someone else comes along that inspires more confidence in their ability to deliver that kind of game. Until then bingo nights sound really good.
BilboFaggins
N00b
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See this is where we differ. You take it as they are slacking by telling us something we consider to be a no brainer. To me, I see this reveal as proof that they are not making some dumb ass version of a "different" healer like other MMORPGs have done.
With the fucked up game designs over the past decade, you can't assume a cleric is going to be a typical cleric UNTIL they say it is going to be that.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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Repeating Khane here, but do you really think that? They're stumbling through the dark and every other interview has a facepalm regarding their concepts or lack thereof.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Add me to the list of those who won't donate to a private site. Not because I think that's would be throwing my money away, and KS isn't, but because they shouldn't have to go that route. If they were capable of getting this project funded from donations, it would have been through KS. They fucked that up, so imo now is the time one of them puts their own asses on the line, takes a loan, goes to an investor, something other than asking for the community to help by giving private donations. If they figure something out on their own and then put up another KS or then have enough of a product to basically be taking pre-orders (even if it's pre-orders for alpha access), I'll pay in.
The time and place for donations is on the KS. If they mess that up, the next time I'm willing to donate will be when I'm purchasing something at all at least somewhat tangible, not just giving handouts for them to keep working on a dream.
The time and place for donations is on the KS. If they mess that up, the next time I'm willing to donate will be when I'm purchasing something at all at least somewhat tangible, not just giving handouts for them to keep working on a dream.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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Making a game that is centered around PvP being the controlling factor of the game would be financial suicide. All you mouthbreathers that trumpet PvP like its the second coming of Christ can stuff it. PvP, while a fun diversion, would be an epic disaster for most subscribers. There is a reason that WoW had 5 million PVE servers and only a handful of PvP servers. There was a reason that EQ was 90% PVE servers and only 10% PvP servers.
You mention how it felt to be the number 2 guild on non pvp server, well I can tell you that from the top guild is just as fucking boring. 4am phone call to wake up to kill some trigger event mob so guild B couldn't progress content sure was engrossing! /boggle. We were number 1 on the server because we had the most people with highest playtimes and could block any guild from gearing up, not because of some elite skill.
You are wanting to take an already niche market, and then even break that down to a much smaller niche crowd of the niche market. For as much shit as you talk around here about development, you don't know a damn thing about a successful business model.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I can only answer that for myself but I played EVE as long as EQ and possibly longer and actually have that itch to sub again because of the last few pages. I usuall tire of the setting, I just prefer a low fantasy setting to space or planar stuff. I've said plenty of times that fantasy-EVE would be the greatest thing since sliced bread (for me).
I understand. I see nothing wrong with Players that want to play games "designed" for PvP, where the main purpose of the game is simply to fight each other. In those games, things like 1v1 balance, clear objectives (often time with leaderboards, server benefits, etc.), and even PvP progression paths (i.e. leveling by PvPing) are all important. I understand why poeple would like to play those types of games, and there are certainly dozens out there with all kinds of interesting feature sets, ranging from WoW BGs, to WvWvW to ArcheAges piracy.
They just aren't the type of PvP that I am after. I don't want PvP to really have specific PvP gameplay or otherwise be "gamey" at all. For example, I don't want a "leaderboard" that people try move up on. I don't want there to be "relics," together with manufactured "team benefits" to get people to chase them. I want PvP to be woven into the fabric of the game itself. For example, there should be only limited places or areas where you can progress (gear or otherwise). Controlling those areas, whether it is through friendships, business deals, or open fighting should be a fundamental aspect of the game. In this type of a game, PvP takes on a different feel. It's not a PvP game, as much as its a world, where players can choose to PvP. The danger is that if you take this exact approach, and put all the resources in instances, for example, PvP can quickly degrade to "meaningless."
Gaige
Legal Ephebophile
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You expected more? The dude didn't even show up when the Vanguard team got fired. He said it was "too emotionally taxing" for him. This is what he does. He talks big and then when the shit hits the fan he disappears.
The problem is they aren't 'making' anything. I can write down a ton of cool copies of AD&D/DIKU derived classes on a napkin. That does not mean you should be writing me a check.
Break out some original concept art. Break out some early alpha footage. Show me the high level design document you should have fully published on the KS page from day 1. Also, give me timelines, deliverables, and what I am getting for my money.
Kickstarter is 'selling' a project. In your mind that project can be vapid, and it's ok because theoretically it might be what you want. In my mind, I want to see some actual product and management, as well as a personal investment ahead of time. We saw none of those things on day one of this KS which is why this thing won't fund despite the fact it really should.
I haven't mentioned one thing about a business model or whether or not this game would be financially viable. I said what I would like to play. Although, if you took more than 30 seconds to think about it, what I think you will find is that the majority of the people following my way of thinking say essentially, "make a great PvE game, and then turn on PvP" as the starting point. So, dipshit, to achieve financial success, even if you are 100% correct in your view of what the community wants, you would have your 'PvE game" for the 8,000,000 folks that like that. Just flip the switch on a server for me and mine.
Which, incidentally, is exactly what EQ did.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Sadly I did this time around, thought lessons were learned.
Learned mine, two chances are enough.
