Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

I hate the idea of servers... A lot of people have multiple groups of friends they want to play with and a lot of the time people choose different servers. You need a small population if you want EQ1 like communities and games these days aren't going to go for that model. So there might as well be a more dynamic system that didn't force you to stick with a server.

Aradune_sl said:

You know what would be killer if we could keep it all organized: a list of features you guys want to see, and, just as importantly, stuff you don't want to see. I realize that not everyone is completely on the same page, but we could still maintain a list and just note where people disagree and list the different paths people with differing opinions want us to go.

Any ideas on how we could do this? On this site? Or maybe use google docs? What do you guys think? Too crazy to keep it updated with so many people interested in Pantheon, or maybe something we can try and give it a shot?

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no instances. rare loot. day/night cycle with weather thrown in as well. sprawling dungeons like you had in EQ. meaningful quests. anything else would just be icing on the cake.

Hachima_sl said:

I hate the idea of servers... A lot of people have multiple groups of friends they want to play with and a lot of the time people choose different servers. You need a small population if you want EQ1 like communities and games these days aren't going to go for that model. So there might as well be a more dynamic system that didn't force you to stick with a server.

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I could get behind a single server system. I guess it depends on player population (especially at launch, since no game really handles the load at launch well), because as much as I dislike the "oh hey, what server are you playing on", I dislike the threat of lag more.

Tannlin_sl said:

I could get behind a single server system. I guess it depends on player population (especially at launch, since no game really handles the load at launch well), because as much as I dislike the "oh hey, what server are you playing on", I dislike the threat of lag more.

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I don't see it happening unless the population only supports a single server.

/

A buddy of mind did point out a problem with Brad's 'must finish X dungeon to level up' system - it restricts leveling freedom. In VG and EQ you can pick your spot to level up in, which can be handy if common leveling areas are crowded.

Also, I think Brad's system would require at least some instanced dungeons. :-O

It's got it's plus and minuses.

FFXIV ARR did this , it did get many more folks in groups running dungeons required for class quests , but I'm more leaning towards it is too restricting. I rather be able to level up my class however without any hard rules of something I must do in a dungeon to get to 20 from 19. I'd think maybe drops in particular for a certain spell or such would be fine, but not a completely roadblock to the class leveling.

Dahkoht_sl said:

I'd think maybe drops in particular for a certain spell or such would be fine, but not a completely roadblock to the class leveling.

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Pretty much this. I'm cool with getting rare drops/abilities by dungeon delving. Not cool if it means I'm stuck at level 10 until I can get a group on the weekend to go into instanced dungeon X get the achievement 'killed the goblin king' and then get to level to 11.

Aradune_sl said:

Agreed. If we do something like this, it has to be done carefully and *meaningfully*. We want the feedback of players who are already drawn to the game. We don't need feedback from people who don't like the game and just want to change it into something else (WoW, etc.) Gathering that kind of data doesn't help anyone. Nor should any of you worry that suddenly a big group of people pop up on our message boards, demanding we fundamentally change the game, and we listen to them. That's simply not going to happen.

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This is the best thing I've ever read regarding MMORPG design since 1999!

Stick to your game vision and cater to your target audience. The last thing we want is a mutation of a game which fails to satisfy both groups.

As for voting for things we want to see and things we do not want to see; count me in. I was thinking of creating a poll which asks certain fundamental design questions and let those who are interested in the game vote (but how do you filter haters who are not even interested in this project?).

Take a deep breath guys, it's going to be ok. Eq was restricting as hell and we all somehow found a way through it. Let the man try something.

I'd say there really need to be closed forums for folks who have donated at least something - that would immediately weed out a lot of the trolls/idiots who don't want a game like this to begin with.

Laura_sl said:

This is the best thing I've ever read regarding MMORPG design since 1999!

Stick to your game vision and cater to your target audience. The last thing we want is a mutation of a game which fails to satisfy both groups.

As for voting for things we want to see and things we do not want to see; count me in. I was thinking of creating a poll which asks certain fundamental design questions and let those who are interested in the game vote (but how do you filter haters who are not even interested in this project?).

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Well how about having your polls on the games forums which backers have access to. That way it eliminates the excuses that will come up with calling people haters if they don't agree with you.

Dahkoht_sl said:

I'd say there really need to be closed forums for folks who have donated at least something - that would immediately weed out a lot of the trolls/idiots who don't want a game like this to begin with.

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Abefroman_sl said:

Well how about having your polls on the games forums which backers have access to. That way it eliminates the excuses that will come up with calling people haters if they don't agree with you.

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Lol.

I would do it slightly differently: Open forums (all to see) but you had to donate at least 25 to ks to post. Also allows for additional funding from new posters as the game gets wider press.

Yeah I'd say the allowed to view but only donators of around the level you mentioned can post.

Hachima_sl said:

I hate the idea of servers... A lot of people have multiple groups of friends they want to play with and a lot of the time people choose different servers. You need a small population if you want EQ1 like communities and games these days aren't going to go for that model. So there might as well be a more dynamic system that didn't force you to stick with a server.

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I finally actually read all of your post - eh, that'd be interesting, but I don't see how they do it without a lot of instancing. -_-

Brad, the most important thing is to makeeach mob and fight difficultin the vein of EverQuest. Each fight has to require attention and make what buttons you push, and when, matter, not the constant button smashing of WoW. Compound this with an effective death penalty that players want to avoid, and everything else falls into place from this two important goals.

Slow the fights down, make thewhenskills are used more important than how many skills you spam by how many buttons you can push. Essentially, that's what it boils down to when all the design terms are stripped away.

Dahkoht_sl said:

Yeah I'd say the allowed to view but only donators of around the level you mentioned can post.

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This.

Dumar_sl said:

Brad, the most important thing is to makeeach mob and fight difficultin the vein of EverQuest. Each fight has to require attention and make what buttons you push, and when, matter, not the constant button smashing of WoW. Compound this with an effective death penalty that players want to avoid, and everything else falls into place from this two important goals.

Slow the fights down, make thewhenskills are used more important than how many skills you spam by how many buttons you can push. Essentially, that's what it boils down to when all the design terms are stripped away.

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I liked the tactics required for EQ1 where pulling was a skill. Harmony a few things, los the pull just right otherwise it was game over. Unless you had an awesome enchanter. Its certainly not a popular mechanic seeing how little it seems to be a factor in games these days though.

tad10_sl said:

I don't see it happening unless the population only supports a single server.

/

A buddy of mind did point out a problem with Brad's 'must finish X dungeon to level up' system - it restricts leveling freedom. In VG and EQ you can pick your spot to level up in, which can be handy if common leveling areas are crowded.

Also, I think Brad's system would require at least some instanced dungeons. :-O

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Remember EQ2, though, and the boat fights in classic ? The L30ish boat to zek and the L40ish boat to everfrost were some of the better fights. Quite fun, memorable even now. As long as they're not super tedious (because there's a high probability we'll be doing these on multiple characters...) they could be quite an asset. A rite of passage, y'know?

unrelated edit: Thanks for this, and the posting. I just wanted to say that sticking to your design goals are important. There's a large community of mmo-locusts...vagabond, nomads, whatever. They go from one game to the next, hoping to find their next WoW. I'm not sure what these people are looking for but it's probably not your game, and that's okay, just don't let the influx of 1m people and the exodus of 500k people the next month ruin the game like it has so many others.

1. Nights being dark with infraviosn/ultravision items/races also torches in offhand.
2. Kicking snakes
3. Frogloks (no matter how you name it) i really liked killing those creepers.
4. D'Vinn, Griffins, Sand Giants, Lockjaw in lower level zones.
5. Keep regular mobs and named unleashed, leashing should be kept at Rais mobs aka Nagafen not getting stuck at Fire Giants entrance textures.

1. Infrastructures and more importantly, dungeons, should be allowed to have narrow and cramped areas, even if this messes up any 3rd person view. I am kinda tired of every structure in a modern MMO seemingly being built for Giants. Thronehalls, sure, goblin-infested dwarvenmine, not so much.

2. Small races having a lower viewpoint; this works so much for me still in EQ. If only for the fact that a halfling seems to be running so much faster then an Ogre, just because he is so much lower to the ground. Large races should have bigger hitboxes, throw in a Shrink spell for Class-distinction. What I am actually asking here is, do not be afraid to add lots of colour locale and distinctive Class and Racial features, even if this means inconvenience. Asking another player to move his butt is a way to interact.

3. A fantastic 1st person view (next to other views).

4. Vendordiving, i.e. local NPC merchants restock the wares that player sell them. I understand that this probably does not mesh well with most modern MMO economic frameworks, but please find a means to somehow fit this in. It is the ultimate meta-gameplay for me, and gives a lot of colour locale to the PvE environment.

5. Find even more ways for people to interact, not just by making them group up for monsterkilling.

6. I am extremely sceptic but still wish you all the luck.

7. Stilll playing the original on and off!