I shouldn't have to spell out in crayon every time I post that what I am typing is just my opinion. Of course that mechanic works, but just because it works doesn't mean it isnt stupid. WoW dungeons work too, and those are pretty fucking awful IMO as well.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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OH, I love this shit now. Neckbeards have been parachuting into every MMO thread for ages with this sucks and that sucks. WoW this WoW that, blah blah blah. Now some of you fuckers want some big fanboi circle jerk. Fucking get used to it because people aren't going anywhere.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Hah plenty of room for the late bloomers.. In the end we need donations. I want people to fucking love this game.. Give me 10 years of copy cat pantheon games!!
I'm honestly not trying to rustle any EQ fan jimmies. I just won't stop discussing something because anything but praise is unacceptable in their eyes.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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All you have said is that its stupid because you think so. You haven't articulated any reason why monks should be emasculated as a class so enchanters can feel even better about themselves.
Your right. This isn't the political forums. So please, I'm not doing this here. All I stated was, Ranger didn't appear to like anything about the design, mechanics, or principles of the game that is being discussed. So that's cool! Right? He doesn't have to. So there's really no point in discussion is there? Brad has been very clear on his ideas. It just didn't sound like Ranger would be interested. Its not personal. I don't like WOW. So I don't play it, or comment in the WOW thread. Simple.
Really for most group encounters EQ worked the same way. Clerics definitely healed the best, but 2 druids was usually good enough, or a shaman slowing the mobs, shit I've healed groups with a necro before. Warriors, SKs, Paladins, and even rangers or monks could tank most "group" content in OG EQ. For CC an enchanter or bard was really sexy, but Clerics, Rangers, Shaman, Druids, Wizards, Necros, Paladins all had alternatives.
EQ classes and to some extent VG classes were way more specialized than what you find in say WoW. (Though in VG healers just were a bit ridiculous. I don't know how many groups I main healed, main tanked, main pulled simultaneously on my Cleric.)
The problem is that in EQ you had "bests". Warriors tanked the best, Clerics healed the best, Echanters mezzed the best, Shaman slowed the best, Rogues/Monks/Wizards did the best DPS in most situations. Necros/Mages/Druids soloed the best. WHATEVER. In WoW the goal would be for Warrior/SK/Paladin to tank exactly equal. Rogue/Monk/Ranger/Wizard/Mage/Necro/Enchanter would do exactly the same DPS. Cleric/Druid/Shaman would heal exactly as well as each other. Etc. In EQ it was okay for Warriors to tank better because SK had all these cool spells that may not have made up the difference in a min/max situation but definitely added some utility and fun factor. Clerics could heal better than druids because druids had snares and dots and ports and regen and thorns and other desirable things that still didn't make them as desirable as a cleric for healing but didn't leave them as anything but their own unique snowflake.
You get what I'm saying. If you want to min/max balance every single aspect of game play you will eventually end up with something bland. If druids can heal as well as clerics do clerics then get ports or does a new mechanic have to be designed to make clerics useful outside of healing now so they aren't vastly inferior to druids?
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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The point I'm trying to make badly is that we aren't going to agree on everything, but people throwing a hissy fit that this isn't the game for them and to get out of the thread does zero fucking good. It's a message board, throwing ideas back and forth is part of the fun stuff. Who thehell wants people to agree with everything they say anyway?
Now this I agree with. Lost Ranger "liked" this quest is not something I ever want to see. Keep FB, twitter etc FAR away.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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It's not hate man, it's just the way it was. We're all talking about 'difficulty' and 'no flying mounts to skip content' etc etc and yet... FD made EQ encounters far less dangerous, and people were able to straight up skip content using it. It was an ill conceived ability, that had consequences nobody predicted, and enhanced gameplay for some and diminished it for others.
It was a shitty mechanic then, and it's double shitty now
Whidon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Much as I loved FD splitting on my Necro and SK I feel this is about right. perhaps make FD splitting and other similar ability's much more difficult to pull off/less reliable is the way.
Also did any game have as amazing classes as VG and EQ? If nothing else I feel brad wins the class design contest.
I kind of get where he's coming from, though. You figure most mobs you encounter, especially humanoids, have some sort of rudimentary intelligence. They run and get help when they're low, they know to patrol through their base, and so on. When a mob then chases someone, sees them die, and wanders back, and then does the exact same thing 5 or 6 minutes later, it sort of pokes a hole in the idea that these things are sentient beings, and not animatronic puppets on a track.Being cursed by their deity of choice with a crazy 5 or 10 second long memory which, as you brought up, would make sense in a fantasy world because anything can be justified by fantasy, does not necessarily mean that bad AI needs to be covered for with lore.
I understand both sides of the fence. Pulling is a fun mechanic for those who enjoyed it, and it added an extra level of skill for players to distinguish themselves. I also understand the other side where we're moving on to a new game, and it would be nice if our monsters could be smarter than a bowl of oatmeal this time around. It seems like there's room for a middle ground where the role of pulling could be focused on breaking up groups of monsters with in-game intelligence, as opposed to out of game intelligence.
Meaning a puller wouldn't pull based on knowing the aggro radius of a certain mob, or knowing what assists and what doesn't based on arbitrary numbers, but pulling based on things like getting the attention of an individual creature so he wanders from his friends to check it out, or feigning death as a tactic to get the monsters to cancel their calls for reinforcements and not just instantly forget that you exist.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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In addition to FD, Complete Heal was a pretty big O FUCK WHY WE DO DAT for EQ. How many expansions worth of content are balanced around this alone?!
Really through Kunark/Velious most of these mechanics were tolerable but over time the gap between some of the classes just got wider and wider. Until eventually as you said the other classes were simply given that mechanic or an equivalent.