Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Vandyn

Vandyn

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Yea I'm not sure the lower tiers help them. As it stands now they are not getting a flood of backers. This thinking goes with an assumption that people are on the fence because the tiers are too high but if that was the case it wouldn't had taken 12 days to sell out of the 45 alpha slots. I think they've probably gotten the rabid fan by now, everyone else on the fence isn't backing because there is nothing to back. You haven't shown anything that resembles even a glimmer of what this game can be. Even the stuff they are putting out isn't getting attention and in some cases hurting them (twitch yesterday didn't do them favors).
 
Jimbolini

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Finish strong, work on plan B..lower the goals to cover only start up capital (Explain to the pledge) and go again.
 
L

Lysis

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I don't think it's an average joe issue. IMO, the main issue remains trust within the audience he's targeting.

Against my better judgment, I've remained on the fence. I may contribute to the final rush if it seems viable.

That is if he doesn't marginalize the game before the KS ends. Mentors? Brotherhood system? Cross-server play? What's next, rest exp? This is sounding more like the hack job Salim did to VG.
 
Muligan

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I hope Francis interviews Brad instead of Boogie. The MMO industry and most of the people involved could really use a good cussing.
 
Hateyou

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TragedyAnn_sl said:
So I've been thinking about this for a while. I think right now all the backers for Pantheon are pretty familiar with Brad and his past work and are hopeful for what Pantheon could be. The problem is, people who AREN'T familiar with Brad and the vision, don't see why they should back Pantheon. Which is why so many of us said they should have made the kickstarter for like 200k just to fund a demo or something concrete. And then use THAT to rope in more backers.
My little brother is way too young to be familiar with Brad and EQ, but he played VG and GW2 and is always looking for another good MMO. He's keeping an eye on TESO and I sent him something about EQN and he said "Oh that looks cool!".
But if I send him to the Pantheon KS, he's not going to "get it". He's going to want to know WHY I'm excited about this and why he should be too. And I don't know if I could even explain it to him.
To anyone not familiar with Brad, the KS is just another idea for another MMO and not enough to convince someone like him to throw some money towards. Even though I KNOW he'd really enjoy the game if and when it is created.
Whereas if there was an actual demo of a game, then someone like him might get excited enough to want to contribute...
But it is what it is at this point.
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I disagree. I think the problem is everyone IS familiar with Brad. I played VG for a few years, and it's worst state was in beta and launch when he had the reigns. It didn't get good until a year or more after launch when Sony started making lvl 50 content. I'm not sure when you started playing VG, but the game it is now is nowhere near the shit pile it was when Brad owned it.

As for people who aren't familiar with Brad and Co, the KS is honestly aperfectrepresentation of what Pantheon will be if it ever releases. An amateurish, buggy, fix it on the fly as people bitch, disorganized mess. I want the next EQ and (Sony) VG as much as the next guy, but if these guys deliver it I will be extremely surprised, and will shoot Brad an apology and buy the game.
 
T

Troy_Costisick_sl

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Vandyn_sl said:
Yea I'm not sure the lower tiers help them. As it stands now they are not getting a flood of backers. This thinking goes with an assumption that people are on the fence because the tiers are too high but if that was the case it wouldn't had taken 12 days to sell out of the 45 alpha slots. I think they've probably gotten the rabid fan by now, everyone else on the fence isn't backing because there is nothing to back.
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Yeah, even if they sell out the $25 tier, that's only $25k added to the KS. That's nothing. They really need to add more in the upper tier range to encourage people to move up. They have got to offer some rewards that people won't be able to do without and thus will increase their pledges.

Let's say they can double the number of people who have pledged at this point by the end of the campaign; let's call it 2000 more. At the current avergage pledge of $125, that's only $250k more. Not enough. Even if they tripple the number of pledges they have now, adding 4000 more people, that woould only be 500k. Close, but not there. I believe the dev team needs to focus on adding value in the $200+ range of tiers if they're going to make it. That doesn't mean every new tier has to be $200 or more. They can add a few in the hundred range, just so long as they make sure those tiers are included in everything higher.

If they can't move people up into the higher ranges of pledges, they won't make it. Now, I'll qualify that: we don't know what sorts of add-ons they are going to have, so that could change the game as well. But still, they need to increase the avg pledge because I have my doubts that 5000 new people are going to show up from this point.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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Troy_Costisick_sl said:
Yeah, even if they sell out the $25 tier, that's only $25k added to the KS. That's nothing. They really need to add more in the upper tier range to encourage people to move up. They have got to offer some rewards that people won't be able to do without and thus will increase their pledges.

Let's say they can double the number of people who have pledged at this point by the end of the campaign; let's call it 2000 more. At the current avergage pledge of $125, that's only $250k more. Not enough. Even if they tripple the number of pledges they have now, adding 4000 more people, that woould only be 500k. Close, but not there. I believe the dev team needs to focus on adding value in the $200+ range of tiers if they're going to make it. That doesn't mean every new tier has to be $200 or more. They can add a few in the hundred range, just so long as they make sure those tiers are included in everything higher.

If they can't move people up into the higher ranges of pledges, they won't make it. Now, I'll qualify that: we don't know what sorts of add-ons they are going to have, so that could change the game as well. But still, they need to increase the avg pledge because I have my doubts that 5000 new people are going to show up from this point.
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Obviously it's more than just the tiers though. You can hand out all sorts of crap but if people don't buy into what your selling (and lets face it, not enough are), then it doesn't really matter. It still just comes down to if people really believe Brad can make this kind of game again, without cutting corners to boot. He's boxed himself into this corner where he's only trying to appeal to a specific subset of player. He needs to broaden out and hell if that means trying to borrow elements from (dare I say) vanilla wow, do it. Yes it may piss of the hardcore neckbeards but it'll broaden the reach on getting people to buy into this game.

If he can market it to where it's a game with it's core in EQ but will borrow from Vanguard and WoW, I think that would make a kick ass game that people would play.
 
Ukerric

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Merlin_sl said:
This thing is dead in the water. They didn't show us shit.
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A friend of mine told me yesterday that there's three categories on Kickstarter:

- The guys who are complete unknowns, have never done any game but "awesome ideas", and want you to give them money so that they'll realize making games is hard.
- The guys who tell you how awesome they were in well known game companies, and if they could just have no oversight from their corporate overlords, they could make their "awesome idea" for which they have maybe a handful of concept art.
- And the guys who come, show you their prototype of a game, how it's going to play when done, and ask money so they can finish it.

He pretty much ignores the first two categories now.

Oh, and there's a fourth category. Chris Roberts.
 
Tuco

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Ukerric_sl said:
A friend of mine told me yesterday that there's three categories on Kickstarter:

- The guys who are complete unknowns, have never done any game but "awesome ideas", and want you to give them money so that they'll realize making games is hard.
- The guys who tell you how awesome they were in well known game companies, and if they could just have no oversight from their corporate overlords, they could make their "awesome idea" for which they have maybe a handful of concept art.
- And the guys who come, show you their prototype of a game, how it's going to play when done, and ask money so they can finish it.

He pretty much ignores the first two categories now.

Oh, and there's a fourth category. Chris Roberts.
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Isn't Chris Roberts in the second group? I don't have the timeline of the Star Citizen kickstarter memorized but when it started wasn't it just him bullshitting and some concept art? And now it's just him bullshitting, some very expensive 3d art assets and a garage to look at your very expensive 3d art assets?
 
I

Iadien

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They really should have done a trial run first, so many of these changes should have been in from the start.
 
rhinohelix

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Tuco_sl said:
Isn't Chris Roberts in the second group? I don't have the timeline of the Star Citizen kickstarter memorized but when it started wasn't it just him bullshitting and some concept art? And now it's just him bullshitting, some very expensive 3d art assets and a garage to look at your very expensive 3d art assets?
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They had demo footage of the dog-fighting module, I think, as well. They have definitely built as they went along but the difference is that people trust Chris, and what we see as requests for more information really are people asking for confirmation it's going to be EQ 2.0 and not Vanguard 2.0. The entire tack should have been A)Nostalgia B) Reassuring/answering the Brad trust question.
 
M

Merlin_sl

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Bilbo Faggins_sl said:
There is a way to salvage this kickstarter. What they have been working on getting so far is the fanatics; aka us. And, for the most part it worked. Now it's time to get the bulk of the money, and it isn't going to come from us.

First thing he needs to do is abandon the $20 and $35 pledges. He's trying to be too tricky with those two levels where one gets you beta access and no digital copy of the game where the other gets you the game but no beta access. That kind of shit doesn't work for the mass public. You got to keep it simple for the masses.

Create a $25 level. Put it in big fucking writing at the top of the kickstartet page. Keep it simple.

$25 gets you the game and beta access! Click here now!

Pump that fucker on every social media event, every video, every blog, etc. Make that pledge synonymous with Pantheon. Make the masses think they are getting one hell of a deal for just $25, and when the kickstarter is over that deal is gone forever, so hurry and get yours now!

Forget the other pledge amounts. Those are for the hardcore fans. You need 99% of your pledgers hitting that $25 button. It's cheap enough for split second purchasing. You sell 30,000 $25 pledges is $750,000.

If you can't sell a mmorpg for $25 to 30,000 gamers in a 15,000,000 gamer industry, than you need to rethink everything you are doing.

The problem is that they are trying to sell the idea to people like us, and we are the most critical fucks in the world.
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How are you going to get 30,000 people in a beta? haha.

Ohh and what is an AMA anyway?
 
A

Arctic_Slicer_sl

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Merlin_sl said:
How are you going to get 30,000 people in a beta? haha.

Ohh and what is an AMA anyway?
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Yeah especially when they already said that they plan on having an eventually playerbase of 20,000-50,000 people. The only way this gets funded is to have more attractive tiers above $600 that would make people want to move up. I'm personally at $600 but would consider going as high as $1200-1500 if there was a pledge tier with cool rewards in that range. The current $900 if raised to $1200 and included the $1000 rewards would probably get me to double my pledge; and likely get some of those 10 sitting at $1000 now to upgrade. Heck they could probably just drop the $900 down to like $700 and get people to buy into it. A call from Brad is cool but it's not $300 cool.
 
Whidon

Whidon

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I would love to know the amount of page views and stats for the Pantheon KS and and others like CU. Be very interesting to see how it's faring in those category vs others.

Many of the biggest fanboys are giving the worse advice. Not too many on here now, but a few times I have mentioned the need for better high-end tiers a couple guys have said "nah we need cheap tiers! Fuck Math!". Along with a bunch of other super rose colored glasses stuff.

What do people think they need to realistically have with say 3 days left to have a shot at getting a huge boost for the win? I have been operating under the assumption of needing to be at 600k, But I think 550K might have a shot. Again having a bunch of sweet high priced tiers would help the chances of this.
 
mkopec

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Well those high end tiers are not selling either. If they cannot sell out a $250 for lifetime $1 sub fee, than I dont know WTF.

They are just not getting enough backers. 2K backers wont cut it to fund 800K, no matter what tiers and how attractive you make it. They need at least like 10K backers to fund this shit. And im just not seeing it. if they are like averaging <50 backers a day.

And I also agree on the twitch stuff yesterday. It was nice and all but each one of those two twitch broadcasts yesterday had like 200 viewers, they are just not getting this shit viral at all.
 
Jimbolini

Jimbolini

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The 250+ tiers sold really well, they just seem to have a few useless high level tiers that don't make enough sense to pledge.
 
Hachima

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You need 50% of your playerbase to pledge at least $45. If the game has a chance, it would meet that no problem. It's what potential investors would want to see too I'm sure. The few extreme pledgers don't make it a good investment. You need a small 40k playerbase paying a monthly sub. Right now they only have 5% of that showing interest.
 
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