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KDow

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I think we only did 4 or 5 signs (more, eat, all done, drink / thirsty) but they were a huge help.

In thinking about it a bit more Araysar Araysar , the thing that really saved us was getting the kid out of our room at like 3.5 to 4 months. Ferber worked really well for us and helped get some sanity back in our lives. Related to that, we bought a thing called an Owlet which is like a pulse ox monitor sock and it helped give us peace of mind that our kid was alive. He wore it through about month 10 when he slept. It was also pretty handy to tell us if the kid was in deep sleep when he was really little and safe to move / put down without waking up.
 
Arative

Arative

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We had the owlet for our second kid. Gave my wife piece of mind to get the kid in her own room at 4 months. It did suck a few times in the middle of the night when it got a disconnect alarm.
 
Izo

Izo

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lurkingdirk said:
My kids all learned the sign for fuck you pretty early.
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We just used an app for it, learned 10 basic signs pretty fast.
 
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lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

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Izo said:
giphy.gif

We just used an app for it, learned 10 basic signs pretty fast.
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I know many people who did that. We didn't use signs, and all our kids spoke pretty early. I don't know what the benefit is to be honest. If a kid wants more food, (s)he doesn't need to know a sign, it's pretty clear. But I do know many people who did it, and people whose parenting skills I respect.

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Izo

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lurkingdirk said:
I know many people who did that. We didn't use signs, and all our kids spoke pretty early. I don't know what the benefit is to be honest. If a kid wants more food, (s)he doesn't need to know a sign, it's pretty clear. But I do know many people who did it, and people whose parenting skills I respect.

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The benefit is the kid can communicate with the caretakers before they can speak - change my diaper, wet, tired, hungry, thirsty etc. Makes for a much smoother day care experience. And peace of mind, that the kid gets taken care of, not being miserable. Goes a long way to have the woman be comfortable with leaving the kid in someone elses care from 9mo a good deal of the day. I donno, that counts for a alot in our end, women having careers just as men.

I wonder if there’s any evidence of kids speaking early being a marker for anything substantial. I get it’s important to stimulate kids for their development, especially before the age of 4 (jordan peterson, I think). But the obsession with them standing, walking, talking etc ‘before the others’ being goals themselves seems a bit silly to me, being some of it is beyound our control at this point. I donno, I wonder what the evidence is, besides what we know by proxy, neglegt.
 
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lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

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Izo said:
The benefit is the kid can communicate with the caretakers before they can speak - change my diaper, wet, tired, hungry, thirsty etc. Makes for a much smoother day care experience. And peace of mind, that the kid gets taken care of, not being miserable. Goes a long way to have the woman be comfortable with leaving the kid in someone elses care from 9mo a good deal of the day. I donno, that counts for a alot in our end, women having careers just as men.

I wonder if there’s any evidence of kids speaking early being a marker for anything substantial. I get it’s important to stimulate kids for their development, especially before the age of 4 (jordan peterson, I think). But the obsession with them standing, walking, talking etc ‘before the others’ being goals themselves seems a bit silly to me, being some of it is beyound our control at this point. I donno, I wonder what the evidence is, besides what we know by proxy, neglegt.
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I get all of that. But I have reservations. Kid needs a diaper change, kid makes it obvious vocally. Kid is hungry, kid makes it obvious vocally. Not, not using words, but kids make themselves understood. If you've just fed the kid, and it's screaming, check the diaper. Whatever. Please understand that I'm not in any way criticizing this, it's just something we didn't do. Maybe it's something that would have transformed our lives as we raised children.
 
Izo

Izo

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lurkingdirk said:
I get all of that. But I have reservations. Kid needs a diaper change, kid makes it obvious vocally. Kid is hungry, kid makes it obvious vocally. Not, not using words, but kids make themselves understood. If you've just fed the kid, and it's screaming, check the diaper. Whatever. Please understand that I'm not in any way criticizing this, it's just something we didn't do. Maybe it's something that would have transformed our lives as we raised children.
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It’s the lost in translation that comes of as abrasive, I don’t mean to antagonize you :)

It’s beneficial in a number of ways. Here it has to do with less than optimal kid to caretaker ratio. If your kid is capable of communicating effectively it’s a smoother experience for everyone there. Less time with a wet diaper = win for the kid, and for the planning of the workers there. Socio-liberal country here, bit underfunded you might say. Private is not much better here.
Some claim, if done properly, the basic sign language thing has a positive impact on the ability to learn speech. Speculation is the kid is inspired by the positive feedback loop from communicating effectively before being able to express it verbally, seeking to enhance it. Or whatever. We’re talking 1-3 yo’s. My kids spoke early too. My youngest 3yo wont shut up all day as it is. Win some, lose some :D In total, I’m glad we took the time, less suffering in daycare. I have no idea if it’s any good in the long run of their life. Who knows.
 
lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

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Izo said:
It’s the lost in translation that comes of as abrasive, I don’t mean to antagonize you :)

It’s beneficial in a number of ways. Here it has to do with less than optimal kid to caretaker ratio. If your kid is capable of communicating effectively it’s a smoother experience for everyone there. Less time with a wet diaper = win for the kid, and for the planning of the workers there. Socio-liberal country here, bit underfunded you might say. Private is not much better here.
Some claim, if done properly, the basic sign language thing has a positive impact on the ability to learn speech. Speculation is the kid is inspired by the positive feedback loop from communicating effectively before being able to express it verbally, seeking to enhance it. Or whatever. We’re talking 1-3 yo’s. My kids spoke early too. My youngest 3yo wont shut up all day as it is. Win some, lose some :D In total, I’m glad we took the time, less suffering in daycare. I have no idea if it’s any good in the long run of their life. Who knows.
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Makes sense. Something to think about. If I were having more kids.

I can't have more kids. I have too many kids. And they're all going to be living at home again this year. And while I love them all, I've spent a lot of time with them in 2020. I believe we all might be reverting to sign language soon.
 
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Izo

Izo

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lurkingdirk said:
Makes sense. Something to think about. If I were having more kids.

I can't have more kids. I have too many kids. And they're all going to be living at home again this year. And while I love them all, I've spent a lot of time with them in 2020. I believe we all might be reverting to sign language soon.
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Heh. Yeah, five kids is really something, i can only imagine. They’re grown / above gradeschool iirc? You must be one heck of a dad, having them home again, respect. We wanted 3, but 2 it is. And they drive me nuts in vacation time. Too old for more. I can’t deal with sleepless nights, diapers etc. Thank god I’m an essential worker, hah.
 
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lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

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Izo said:
Heh. Yeah, five kids is really something, i can only imagine. They’re grown / above gradeschool iirc? You must be one heck of a dad, having them home again, respect. We wanted 3, but 2 it is. And they drive me nuts in vacation time. Too old for more. I can’t deal with sleepless nights, diapers etc. Thank god I’m an essential worker, hah.
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12, 16, 17, and 20 year old twins. Pray for me.
 
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iannis

iannis

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I assume there's a large cognitive benefit as well.

To formalize speech is to formalize thought. not to put too fine a metric on it but generally that is true. With signs they're learning a communal way to share needs and thoughts outside of themselves. I was taught, when I took the child psychology course years ago, that separation and self-awareness doesn't really start until 1.5-2 years.

Well, obviously that isn't quite as true as the textbooks want it to be. How lasting that benefit is... I dunno. Kids are booger factories.

but how lasting does it need to be? if it makes just one year easier than the effort involved in teaching the child then it seems like a win to me.

i learned braile when I was 14 because I had a blind friend. Her teachers were impressed. I did not have the finger sensitivity to read it like blind people do, that's a physical thing that takes an actual adaptation, but I could (this is dumb) sight read braile. I could not do that today if I tried, and I retained very little of it. But I could read with her until she moved away.
 
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Hateyou

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The benefit to signing was nice for us. There’s only a few things to check when a baby is crying but when they can sign what they want, you sign back and give it to them, there’s a lot less crying and trying to figure it out. I think maybe it helps them figure out that communication is possible and they don’t just have to cry for every possible thing that’s wrong.

Circling back to the reading/intelligence stuff, my kid took his kindergarten assessment yesterday. Got emailed today he was above the 90th percentile so they want him to come back to do a longer test for High Ability kindergarten and 1st which they hold at a different school. It’s cool and we figured it was coming but man these kind of choices are stressful. Do I have him be in normal kindergarten and blow everyone else away and get good grades but he could possibly be bored and be a troublemaker like I was? Do I put him in HA and have different classes than his neighbors? I’m 99% on board with the HA route, but there’s still this nagging doubt in the back of my head if I am making the right choice. I’m guessing it’s just like this from now until he’s off on his own.
 
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Hateyou

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iannis said:
I assume there's a large cognitive benefit as well.

To formalize speech is to formalize thought. not to put too fine a metric on it but generally that is true. With signs they're learning a communal way to share needs and thoughts outside of themselves. I was taught, when I took the child psychology course years ago, that separation and self-awareness doesn't really start until 1.5-2 years.

Well, obviously that isn't quite as true as the textbooks want it to be. How lasting that benefit is... I dunno. Kids are booger factories.

but how lasting does it need to be? if it makes just one year easier than the effort involved in teaching the child then it seems like a win to me.

i learned braile when I was 14 because I had a blind friend. Her teachers were impressed. I did not have the finger sensitivity to read it like blind people do, that's a physical thing that takes an actual adaptation, but I could (this is dumb) sight read braile. I could not do that today if I tried, and I retained very little of it. But I could read with her until she moved away.
Click to expand...

So everyone doesn’t think he is lying here is visual evidence of iannis iannis and his gf at age 14.

F08203B5-FBDD-4FF6-8779-C000CE835B16.jpeg
 
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iannis

iannis

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I'd go HA. Those social connections are important but they're going to be temporary. He will change peer groups (well, around here) at 1st, 5th, and 9th grade.

I dunno shit, and i'm sure it's stressful in the way that it's an important decision. I think that one is a decision that you can be 100% confident in though. Not a bunch of 'em are gonna be like that.

I know it sounds like bullshit with the braille. The young mind is capable of some surprising things, not all the benefits need to be lasting. That's what I was going for, is all.

to put this in context, I failed Latin. Twice. But I picked up braille in about 2 weeks. go figgure. Motivation matters. I suspect that some teachers viewed me as a bit of an idiot savant.
 
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Hateyou

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iannis said:
I'd go HA. Those social connections are important but they're going to be temporary. He will change peer groups (well, around here) at 1st, 5th, and 9th grade.

I dunno shit, and i'm sure it's stressful in the way that it's an important decision. I think that one is a decision that you can be 100% confident in though. Not a bunch of 'em are gonna be like that.

I know it sounds like bullshit with the braille. The young mind is capable of some surprising things, not all the benefits need to be lasting. That's what I was going for, is all.

to put this in context, I failed Latin. Twice. But I picked up braille in about 2 weeks. go figgure.
Click to expand...

I’m just shitposting, I don’t think you’re the kind of idiot would lie about learning to read Braille. Kids/teens can quickly learn whatever the hell they want to focus on really.

He will still have social connections, ride the same bus as the neighbors, etc.Hell he will still see his neighbor buddies every day after school. I’m not as worried about that as it seems in my post, just thoughts that have ran through my head as we are weighing our options (if he even gets through final selection). Even if HA was at the same school, he wouldn’t be in class with his neighbors because they won’t be in the HA class. After kindergarten and 1st he’d be back at the neighborhood school, it has a HA program but doesn’t start until 2nd grade there. If he gets selected for it, unless we find out some info from the other school we cant deal with for some reason we’ll be going the HA route. The neighborhood school bus goes to both schools, that could have been a potential deal breaker if not.
 
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E

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Today's adventures at dinner.

Daughter (age 5): "Dad, I'm worried that life is a dream."
Me: <Oh, boy, I am NOT ready for kindergarten existential crises.>
Me: "What do you mean?"
Daughter: "Every time I go to pee in the toilet, I'm worried that I'm really asleep and dreaming, and that every time I pee I'm really peeing in my bed."
Me: ...
 
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iannis

iannis

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Probably best not to tell her you never outgrow that.

It gets even worse if you do acid. Wait ten years, and tell her that part.
 
Falstaff

Falstaff

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My almost 5 year old has been telling us stories all the time of when “ he was a baby...” and they are just his dreams (we think). Either way when they start developing their imaginations it’s fascinating.
 
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