Path of Exile 2

mkopec said:

As to the nerfing of those supports, it's fucking stupid to rely on a chase item or items, if you get them both, that literally doubles your overall dps.

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???

Is this a reason to nerf them or what are you arguing here? That you shouldn't follow a build that they are mandatory in? They are somewhat chase items (garukhan more than rakiata with the way prices were this league by miles) that definitely aren't mandatory, if that's the route you're going (unless you follow some atrocious build maybe?). I was alch/exalt/vaaling t15s and going for a while before I could afford my garukhans, and all my rakiata flow did was let me swap a couple (very few) points on my tree from pen into survivability nodes/different pathing. It made virtually no noticeable difference in my damage. I followed along on Fubgun's ice shot deadeye, so maybe for some other build rakiata makes a ridiculous difference, I dunno.

When I put on my headhunter and killed a couple rare mobs in a map my tooltip would go from 80k to 300k and my survivability usually tripled too once I got HH stacked up a little, too... Guess we should delete that from the game like I said, since it's a chase item and stupid that it can quadruple your dps and 3x+ your survivability, after all... Mageblood is probably even worse, although I haven't used it in poe2 but the fact that they go for 1k-3k divs when HH was 200 and garukhan was 450-550 means it's probably even more busted than either of those?

zombiewizardhawk said:

???

Is this a reason to nerf them or what are you arguing here? That you shouldn't follow a build that they are mandatory in? They are somewhat chase items (garukhan more than rakiata with the way prices were this league by miles) that definitely aren't mandatory, if that's the route you're going (unless you follow some atrocious build maybe?). I was alch/exalt/vaaling t15s and going for a while before I could afford my garukhans, and all my rakiata flow did was let me swap a couple (very few) points on my tree from pen into survivability nodes/different pathing. It made virtually no noticeable difference in my damage. I followed along on Fubgun's ice shot deadeye, so maybe for some other build rakiata makes a ridiculous difference, I dunno.

When I put on my headhunter and killed a couple rare mobs in a map my tooltip would go from 80k to 300k and my survivability usually tripled too once I got HH stacked up a little, too... Guess we should delete that from the game like I said, since it's a chase item and stupid that it can quadruple your dps and 3x+ your survivability, after all... Mageblood is probably even worse, although I haven't used it in poe2 but the fact that they go for 1k-3k divs when HH was 200 and garukhan was 450-550 means it's probably even more busted than either of those?

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Rakiata's does more than replace penetration. Penetration can only bring a mob to 0. Rakiata's inverts it to negative. So a 50% more multiplier from penetration is a 100% more multiplier from rakiata. They could nerf it by half and it'd still be better than all other supports than maybe garukhans. Meanwhile they went ahead and nerfed other supports in favor of it. They could nerf it and buff all other supports and it'd still be in the top 3 of supports.

Fogel said:

Rakiata's does more than replace penetration. Penetration can only bring a mob to 0. Rakiata's inverts it to negative. So a 50% more multiplier from penetration is a 100% more multiplier from rakiata. They could nerf it by half and it'd still be better than all other supports than maybe garukhans. Meanwhile they went ahead and nerfed other supports in favor of it. They could nerf it and buff all other supports and it'd still be in the top 3 of supports.

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Like I said, I put a rakiata into my build and barely noticed any change at all in my damage, maybe there are some other builds that it is just absurd for. If rakiata is so absolutely godlike and amazing, why does it only go for 100divs when garukhans and like 4 other lineage are all going for 500+?

As far as them nerfing other supports (or anything else), GGG has always, for 15 years or whatever it's been now, nerfed stupid shit that didn't need to be nerfed while leaving some other stuff alone. Expecting that to change now is silly.

mkopec said:

Problem with those supports is they are SUPPORTS. It's not a standalone item like the HH or the other chase items you can blend into any build. Why is there TWO fucking lineage supports out of like 100 or so that basically double your dps? Why did they nerf the other lineage supports like the reload one for xbows while letting these two slide? Why isn't there a support that gives phys skills or non crit builds double dmg? See the problem here? Or are you just dense?

HH you can blend into any build, these supports you cannot. And no one is saying to delete them either.

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Ah, ok. So since you socket it on a different slot, it is not allowed to be a chase item. Why can't I get a +10 skills bow like I can get a +10 skills wand? Why can spell players get +6 on an amulet but I can't get +6 proj? Why can minion players get +5 or +6 if they can make it to 6 too? Why was chat full of people assuring me that a 10div minion build could steamroll endgame this league but my bow build required 1000++divs to steamroll endgame stuff? Why do you think everything in the game has to be dogshit-tier trash? Because you're one of the 4 people in the world who wants the game to go back to being a slog-fest pile of shit that nobody enjoys?

Buff bosses, add ubers. Its an ARPG, you're supposed to be able to grind out overpowered gear and blast the faces off everything. Fuck nerfing anything, league is fun as fuck.

Fyff said:

Hot take - Ward could have saved some life builds if it didn't take armor away when you added ward....

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its really good for Evasion in the same way.

Ward is actually pretty great. not sure if I discussed it here already, or just on reddit, etc.
but yeah. is effectively "more life". that it goes after life, is actually really good. Unlike ES which is first, this means, it works well with Recoup, regen, and other sources of passive life regen. and also damage taken from mana.
its giving you a higher MAX 1 hit, or burst cap.

the lack of "passives" in the passive tree is again actually useful. means, passive tree can be devoted to other things, such as regen/recoup/evasion.
yes, augment slots take the hit. ward there instead of max life, or 18% es/armor/ev... As well as the defense on gear itself.
ward itself auto regens, and you can get Guard to scale with it.

whats better? 80% chance to evade and 2.5k max hit, or 65% chance to evade, and 3.2k max hit?

zombiewizardhawk said:

Like I said, I put a rakiata into my build and barely noticed any change at all in my damage, maybe there are some other builds that it is just absurd for. If rakiata is so absolutely godlike and amazing, why does it only go for 100divs when garukhans and like 4 other lineage are all going for 500+?

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rakiata is a bit overrated imho.

-takes a support slot. only effects the slotted skill.

inverts resists. bosses have 30-50 resists depending on which. This is pretty huge.
if you hit for 20,000 damage lets say. 50% resist. you deal 10,000 damage.
if you INVERT that resist to -50% resists. and hit for 20,000 damage, you deal 30,000 damage.
200% more damage, then the 50% resisted damage. Huge.

Except... thats only those bosses. most non bosses don't have those resists, so does nothing. OR, enemies that are WEAK to your lets say cold damage, at -100 resist. oops, now have 100 resists, and you need pen to even damage them.

Penetration. so you need to run pen still. penetration can ingnore resists down to zero.

Exposure and elem weakness.
Exposure on supports, etc is 20%. Ice bomb exposure is 50%. both can be modified to higher values. but lets leave it at that.
Elem weakness is -50. also can be increased with curse effect. Same thing. lets ignore the values it can reach with effort.

with frost bomb/elem weakness self casting 2 buttons. you are -100% resistance.
now, both exposure and curses are 15/30/50% less effective versus blue/yellow/bosses. so, its only 25/25 versus bosses.
but -50% resistance is still good, and negates that pinnacle 50% resist to 0. (and curse effect, and exposure effect, quality on ice bomb, can get those values much, much higher.)

Blasphemy weakens elem weakness, costs spirit, but makes it instant, and removes the button press. weaker versions of exposure can also be supported into skills.

Ward on its own is pretty meh, but when combined with guard it's quite strong. The reason ES still stomps all over it is simply because you can get so much ES compared to ward. Even with the guard layer up you can still get one-shot by stuff that an ES character shrugs off easily.... and guard is not 100% uptime even if you macro your Olroth's (sometimes you just don't have the charges to use it). And on top of all that there's CI.

Also the UI/UX stuff for ward+guard needs a big improvement if it's intended to be a primary form of defense (which I suspect was never really their intention, so who knows if they'll take the hint and expand on it or just react with their usual "FUN DETECTED" response to unintended mechanics).

I think ward would be a real winner if they adjusted the formula. I don't know what it is now.

like I guess its based on base item?
so flat added Evasion is not effected by the ward, but %based mods are. that alone is good to understand.

451 eva base. Runeforged its 361eva, 129 ward. costs 20% Eva for 129 ward.

huh..
451 eva base. but exquisites runeforge is just flat out worse? 338 eva, 86 ward.


Arcane Raiment 138 es, oh not listing runeforge..
Havoc Raiment 138 es, 96, 129 ward. costs 30% es...

Well actually, maybe the ratio is already good. That was going to be my point. it should hit ES harder then EVA or armor. that might be the problem. this is too invisible. if Ward was clear, and a flat, 40% of ES, 30% of armor, 20% of Eva across the board. I think its value would be more understandable.

if things like armored vest and exquisite vest resulting in different ratios is common, then thats a real problem.

Yeah, to make ward work you really need to be using Brass Dome. Mine was like 1750 ward because I made it myself, but you can get one up around 2k if you're willing to spend.