Problem with every mmorpg

kitsune

Golden Knight of the Realm
624
35
I don't see why we need to gate 'end game' content around being the maximum level. Why not have it like in diablo 2 or poe where getting max level takes a long time but the last few levels start mattering less and less because of how overall strong you already are. Lets say level cap is 100, why can't a guy do endgame raids from like level 70?
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
Playing on a vanilla wow realm gives me some perspective into things that made the game feel truly massive and more of an adventure and less focused on just maximising your gains. It's too arcade-y nowadays.

For example, yesterday I was killing deviate's in the outdoor area of wailing caverns and a group of alliance showed up. These guys had decided that they wanted to do wailing caverns, and trecked the whole way here which is awesome in itself, it's a goddamn adventureto move from duskwood to booty bay, to ratchet and then from there to wailing caverns, especially at such a low level.
It's a system that works if the group is made of mostly friends, nobody goes linkdead, nobody bails because RL reasons and all of them have the time to do the run and to actually complete the dungeon. As you know it can take well over 1 hour, if not two. I love it, but it can lead to frustrating nights. In BRD mage goes LD, rogue has an emergency, the other three just wasted half a night just to get there and kill one boss, because of no warlock, no summon, etc.
Vanilla was amazing, but it had (and still has if you play on private servers) a bunch of things that have the potential of being extremely annoying. I would still go back in time if I could.
 

Vegetoee_sl

shitlord
103
0
I don't see why we need to gate 'end game' content around being the maximum level. Why not have it like in diablo 2 or poe where getting max level takes a long time but the last few levels start mattering less and less because of how overall strong you already are. Lets say level cap is 100, why can't a guy do endgame raids from like level 70?
I agree. There is no reason Developers can't change the way leveling and end game content work in mmos. The first team that does this could very easily have the next wow on their hands. Then again, WOW and EQ are the reason we have this mess.
 

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
<Gold Donor>
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I don't see why we need to gate 'end game' content around being the maximum level. Why not have it like in diablo 2 or poe where getting max level takes a long time but the last few levels start mattering less and less because of how overall strong you already are. Lets say level cap is 100, why can't a guy do endgame raids from like level 70?
Because most players of mmos these days are delusional fucks that min/max everything to such extremes that generally a sub level 100 person would never be welcome because while they might perform 98.2% as well as a level 100, there's still a 1.8% deficiency which is more than enough to make you overlooked. You're talking about a genre where people will kick DPS out of raids and shit because they are not at peak efficiency. Fuck that mess.

The only way they could do it is to make a level 70 be max "power" level, and any levels gained afterward are good only for things like cosmetics, more bank space, etc etc. But then, they lock themselves into never being able to raise the level limit legitimately as those have likely already obtained the higher levels. While not a problem on it's face, you'll then get these players bitching about lack of content because the expac came out with all this new stuff to go from 70-80, but all of which has been trivialized by obtaining the new "max level" immediately upon logon. Maybe a new "temp" exp bar from 70 to 80 could solve it in this case, but then it just gets confusing.
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,639
11,968
Don't forget their "Required Level X" which is hard level capped by ilevel table. Bind on Equip is fine but no one is going to buy the stuff if it's unusable for twinking. Most quests are hard capped with a minimum level or a prerequisite chain so you're bottlenecked with the blob of players each expansion release as well.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
You're talking about a genre where people will kick DPS out of raids and shit because they are not at peak efficiency. Fuck that mess.
This is extreme hyperbole. The vast majority of MMO raiding isn't nearly as cutthroat as you describe it. There are plenty of guilds in the MMO raidscene that don't kick people for poor performance. The social issue only arises when people with mismatched goals play together. Either the min-maxer deceiving himself into thinking he can stomach grouping with bad players day in day out, or the bad player deluding himself he can play with the top performers without being a burden.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
It's funny that so few of these posts have anything to do with actually playing the game.

Often, it's just not a good game. But even with a good game, the problem is the absurd expectation that 5000 hours and years later you'll still experience the same level of enjoyment. After that amount of time the game has to morph into something that can both interest people who have played the same shit for a decade as well as be accessible enough for new or returning people. A nearly impossible task that always falls short on both ends.

My guess pulled straight from ass is that the fix for this is not a fix but rather SEQUELS or NEW GAMES instead of EXPANSIONS. It's been a decade, stop trying to milk that rotting carcass.

Do you want a game, or a virtual world? Hell, the moment something respawns out of thin air, it's no more a virtual world than a Call of Duty match. You're not going to get the Matrix, stop asking for it.

The other problem with MMORPG's are the goddamn people. If the game is easy enough that you can tolerate playing with any idiot, then you're probably going to see and do everything and swiftly move on to something else. However, if the game is challenging enough that you have to be selective with who you play with, you'll soon frequently find yourself in your backyard at 3am digging graves for the random strangers you chopped to pieces with a machete in a blind rage.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Either the min-maxer deceiving himself into thinking he can stomach grouping with bad players day in day out, or the bad player deluding himself he can play with the top performers without being a burden.
I fell into this trap. I was interested in playing but didn't want to go through the fuckawful hell of finding good players, so I thought I could just play easier content with bad ones. Except anything easy enough for bad players is made irrelevant in a matter of days, and going any further is a 100 foot brick wall of resumes, interviews, and 3 day a week commitments.

And this wasn't just WoW, or EQ. This was every MMO.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,311
13,959
It's true. Playing an MMO is like being married. Eventually you gotta just up the kink so the passion doesn't fade. I think it's a hardware problem, not a software problem.

We need some Logitech Ben Wa Balls.
 
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AladainAF

Best Rabbit
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This is extreme hyperbole. The vast majority of MMO raiding isn't nearly as cutthroat as you describe it. There are plenty of guilds in the MMO raidscene that don't kick people for poor performance. The social issue only arises when people with mismatched goals play together. Either the min-maxer deceiving himself into thinking he can stomach grouping with bad players day in day out, or the bad player deluding himself he can play with the top performers without being a burden.
Try playing the FFXIV end game content. It's tuned as such. Being 99% peak performance isn't good enough.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Which brings up another point, class balancing.

Wanted to be class x? Too fucking bad, that class is too short for this ride.
 
302
22
I agree with Kruegen. This is something I've suggested many times. At a certain point a successful mmo should reset and start over with new content.

For example, Everquest should have had taken what it had, and started Everquest 2 as the SAME GAME but with new level 1 to 50 content.

There effectively wasnt anything completely wrong with the EQ formula, but just like every other mmo company out there, SoE chose to make something DIFFERENT for EQ2 rather than simply making another EQ. And, failed.

The EQ formula worked for Classic through DoDH. There should be 3 or 4 EQs out there by now, but instead we have a grossly morphed pile of shit with over 20 expansions that honestly doesn't fully impress anybody.

People asked me after Starwars Galaxies came out (and I was disappointed with it) if I was expecting Everquest in space. My answer was and still is YES! That would have been great.

There's never been an Everquest era 1999-2004 clone. That's where the industry failed. WoW was a highly distant EQ clone, and quickly diverged greatly the after. Then the industry made a million and one WoW clomes. Too bad they didn't try making even one Everquest clone.
 
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Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
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We need some Logitech Ben Wa Balls.
Having had carpal problems, I'd appreciate an ergonomic mouse that would massage my hand. Alas, the stressed bits and on the back, not the more sensitive palm...
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
I fell into this trap. I was interested in playing but didn't want to go through the fuckawful hell of finding good players, so I thought I could just play easier content with bad ones. Except anything easy enough for bad players is made irrelevant in a matter of days, and going any further is a 100 foot brick wall of resumes, interviews, and 3 day a week commitments.

And this wasn't just WoW, or EQ. This was every MMO.
I don't commit anymore to a guild, I found a casual one and after a month or two I was considering gouging my own eyes out to stop seeing such bad gameplay. So I just said "fuck it" and now I play alone, do a torist run in LFR and then once I have done everything I want to do, I change the fucking game, it's not worth having to run a boss a couple hundred times because someone is fucking up every single attempt for a small chance at shiny +gooder. If you consider that the use for raid gear is close to zero, except to do a higher tier of raiding, well...
Oh it's good to bully quest/daily mobs with your Tanaan geared ilvl 700ish character, but there isn't much beyond that.

There are so many good games out there.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Another pro tip. If you like general chat for the occasional dick joke, you can go ahead and forget that idea during an election cycle.

63504437.jpg
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,503
12,496
Another pro tip. If you like general chat for the occasional dick joke, you can go ahead and forget that idea during an election cycle.

63504437.jpg
My MMORPG subscription time actually increases dramatically if they have a general chat and it's during an election year. 60% of the time, it's more fun than the game, every time.