Rent Vs. Buy housing

mkopec

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Cutlery is always good for an agreeable, non-abrasive opinion.

Things aren't like they were in the 50s, dude. Buying a house sounds like such an alien idea to me at this point.
LOL, same shit different decade bro. Except when we retire, well be fucked even more since most of us wont have the retirement $$ like some of our parents had. Its mostly save for your retirement, now. And medical shit will be 300% more expensive. so yeah, Ill go with the no housing payment option, thanks.

Also dont forget, you live in a state where real estate is like 100%-200% higher than the rest of the nation. So yeah, I would say no to buying a $400K 1000sq ft 1930s bungalow as well. where I live, that $400K would buy you a Sopranos mansion.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
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Fuck this starter house nonsense, and fuck that "don't pay off your house, it's a bad investment" shit.

You know what I see? I see every single retired person with a housing payment being fucked. Straight up, no lube fucked. Rent? Fucked. God help you mortgage? Fucked. You can't afford to be paying that on a fixed income. Retired people with shitloads of cash? People who have owned their house their entire life, never "upgraded" to keep paying the same fucking payment for 50 fucking years, they all have more money than they know what to do with. There is a gigantic financial difference between my mom's mother who is still paying a mortgage payment with her SS check, and my dad's father who lived in the house he fucking built in 1950 or some nonsense and hands out $100 bills to every relative he sees every time he sees them.

Put all that "financial wisdom" aside and look around at the people in their 60's and 70's. Take a real good look at the situation they're in. It should be fairly obvious why you don't want to have a mortgage payment as quickly as possible. My parents paid off their house the year after I moved out (so 17 years on that mortgage total), and they've got more money than they can spend every month because they don't have to fork out over a grand a month to live where they live.
Those are some good anecdotes, but the bottom line is live below your means, whether you rent or buy. Paying off the mortgage early and staying in that house is just an indicator that someone is living comfortably below their means. Whether you pay off the note or not, if you're actually saving a majority of your income (living below your means) you'll be sitting on piles of cash in no time. If you live your life going "ooh I have $500 in the bank, what can I buy???" then you'll be relatively poor regardless of your housing decisions.
 

mkopec

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Cad, good point, but there is a balance you have to strike as well. Fuck living your whole life like a poor schlep so you can retire with mattresses made out of stacks of $100 bills. And then die a few years later.
 

Alex

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I used to think my debt situation was atrocious from school and I've been spending the vast majority of my excess income on eliminating it. I met a friend of a friend who is hardcore into investments and runs some major accounts at a major bank and he told me that I was actually far ahead of the game. I've been investing money into a 401k for over two years now and investing 7% of my salary and my goal is to eliminate all debt - student and the ridiculous cost it took me to move across the country (idiot move on my part, I didn't expect it to be a quarter as expensive as it ended up being) - by the time I'm 30. It's a steep goal, and I might be 31, but I was told that I'm actually not in a bad way as long as I stick to my guns. After the debt's gone, I plan on opening a Roth IRA and put in almost the same amount that I've been spending on paying off my debt.

Debt sucks.
 

Deathwing

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Are those undergrad loans? I wouldn't be so gungho about paying those off early. Usually the interest rate on those are pretty low(haha, not anymore, fuck you students! -repubs). Better off maxing out your 401k first.

10 year payoff for student loans in pretty typical anyway. What extra are you doing to finish almost exactly when you should?
 

Tenks

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I've definitely witnessed that first hand. My aunt and uncle were both public school teachers for 40 years, so they obviously weren't getting rich. They bought their first house when they got married in 1970 for $8000. They lived in it until the day they retired a couple years ago. Sold it and bought a badass $750,000 condo with their insane savings, and now travel the world 6-7 months of the year. You can save a hell of a lot of money when you go 30+ years without a house payment.
I feel the "school teachers don't make money" thing is a complete myth. If you're doing it for 40 years chances are you're making $100k+ unless you decided to teach in the projects your whole career. You can look up teacher's salaries online and if you're in a decent school district you're not hurting for cash. Not to mention teachers don't have to get scammed by the big government programs normal human beings get scammed by. Being a teacher is a pretty cushy job.
 

taebin

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Guess I will wade in here with my recent home buying experience. Wife and I live in the DFW area. We were renting a mid-rise apartment (1/1, 850sq ft) for around $1150 a month, utilities not included. We had paid off all our credit cards, had no car payments, and were putting about $3k a month into savings. So our debt to income ratio was fairly low, mid 700's credit scores, and joint annual income a little north of $100k. Pre-approval was for $350k, biggest hurdle was down payment.

FHA loans vary by county, but most around here allow up to $280k, with 9k of that being a down payment (3.5%). We originally started with that price range in mind, but quickly found everything in the nicer areas (Las Colinas, Coppell, Colleyville, Allen, etc) were very 80's/90's and needed to be gutted, or simply too far from family (Southlake, Frisco, Prosper). Started the house hunt in January, but found out she was pregnant so started narrowing our location to near her parents. Saw about 15 houses in area we finally decided on (Forney, east of Dallas) and decided we really loved one of the first ones we saw. New build completed November of last year, originally asking $400k. Had been reduced to $380k, but it was the last house from this particular builder in the subdivision and they were looking to get it off their books. Ended up getting it for $340k with seller chipping in $5k to close. House is a 4 bed, 3 bath with media room and 2nd living room (game room) upstairs. 3850 sq. feet on a little over half an acre. Never, ever thought I would be able to get something like this for our first home.

Closing costs for us came in right at $12,000, with the aforementioned $5,000 from seller. Our Mortgage breakdown looks something like this @ 4.125%:

P&I - $1,598.37
Homeowner's Insurance - $136.27
PMI - $316.06
County Taxes - $871.82

Total - $2,922.52

We get raped in taxes due to being in a Municipal Utility District (MUD) because we're outside city limits, but our electric/water bill is considerably lower.

We closed on April 16th, moved in April 19th. That first weekend, we had a plumbing/sewage issue where waste was coming back into the house. Was covered under home warranty and builder had sub contractor come back out to the house same day. Turns out painters poured excess paint down drains, hardened, clogged lines. Month later had a swarm of bees build a colony under our upstairs balcony. Was not covered by warranty, and cost around $500 for a bee-keeper to come out and remove. I don't really want to mow half an acre with a push mower, and eventually I might buy a riding mower, but for now we hire a service for $45 bi-weekly. Haven't had any other issues (fingers crossed) and by far the biggest money drain has been furnishing a 3800 square foot house.

Since we closed, wife got a new job making $5k more, and I got a new job making $42k more. A lot more excess money for things, but we've had random stuff come up like new tires for her car, new brakes for mine, baby shit, house furnishings. It adds up, and you really have to look at your budget and plan for things like this before making such a huge commitment. With that said, searching for a house and going through the whole thing is a unique experience that we're really fortunate to have the freedom to do. It has definitely changed me and my habits. You pay attention to things that you didn't use to. What used to be background noise on the news about the housing market and interest rates and economy recovery takes on a whole different meaning when you have so much invested. And sitting on the back porch listening to music while grilling and drinking a beer and realizing, "Hey, all this shit is mine" is pretty fucking cool.
 

Cad

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Cad, good point, but there is a balance you have to strike as well. Fuck living your whole life like a poor schlep so you can retire with mattresses made out of stacks of $100 bills. And then die a few years later.
Living below your means doesn't mean living like a pauper... just means living below your means. If you make $100k, live like you make $50k, etc.. then your money otherwise will just pile up.
 

Tuco

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You can buy just about every tool you need for super cheap at yard sales, estate sales, goodwill etc.
Not sure where you live but that's not true in my area. People hold onto their tools like they're family antiques. I remember being at a yard sale with a guy who had a used drill he paid $200 for and wanted $150 and wouldn't budge. It was even at the end of the day. There's a local pawn shop with half the store filled with tools that are around 80% their new price and the guy who owns them won't haggle much at all, and nobody buys the tools.

There's very few tools at goodwill stores.

I've been to a few estate sales and auctions and usually the family members pick apart the good tools before the auction.

I've got most of the tools I need now anyway, most I got used, a lot I got new.
 

Tuco

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My future home:
116.jpg


but seriously we'll probably get a mobile home. My inlaws just bought one for $1000, lol.
 

Tuco

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You're paying for repairs. Renovations are optional. Tools seem kinda minor cost-wise for what's typically needed around the house for repairs. So, again, you're not saving this money by renting. The landlord should be making you pay by folding it into your monthly payments.

I bought a house last month. My rent was 1250, my piti is 1652. I easily got double the house and 6x the amount of land(yay?). I'm still in shock at how much more my money is getting me. Caveat: I live in Ithaca, so the rental market is in high demand.
You're assuming that the costs to the landlord are the same as what you would pay as a home owner. For renting an apartment to buying a house that simply isn't the case. You're also assuming I'm going to be buying the typical set of tools. I've got a mile-long backlog of projects that are waiting on getting a garage again so I can bust out the ol' forge (Which I'll prob have to remake).
 

lindz

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How do people save up that initial 20%? It just doesn't even seem possible. I'm stay at home, but my husband makes a decent amount but with 3 kids and housing prices in Seattle Eastside we're looking at ~$450k for what we need. I have absolutely no clue how to save close to $100k even with being very careful to put away a % of our monthly income.

In another 4ish years, once all the kids are in school I'll be able to work and contribute more to that, but at 28 I'm feeling like we should already be there. Blah
 

Tuco

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How do people save up that initial 20%? It just doesn't even seem possible. I'm stay at home, but my husband makes a decent amount but with 3 kids and housing prices in Seattle Eastside we're looking at ~$450k for what we need. I have absolutely no clue how to save close to $100k even with being very careful to put away a % of our monthly income.

In another 4ish years, once all the kids are in school I'll be able to work and contribute more to that, but at 28 I'm feeling like we should already be there. Blah
Only way to answer that would be to look at your finances for the last three months. Most people if they spent the time to tabulate their spending over the last three months would quickly find out where they can cut 10-20% out of their budget. But with three young kids good luck saving, lol
 

Deathwing

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You're assuming that the costs to the landlord are the same as what you would pay as a home owner. For renting an apartment to buying a house that simply isn't the case. You're also assuming I'm going to be buying the typical set of tools. I've got a mile-long backlog of projects that are waiting on getting a garage again so I can bust out the ol' forge (Which I'll prob have to remake).
You can rent homes too. Why should we compare renting an apartment to buying a home in regards to typical repairs? That seems to dissimilar to draw any worthy conclusions.

As for your specialty projects...uh, no idea how any of that applies to the difference between renting and buying. Those are optional and if anything, would be in favor of buying because it means you won't have a landlord (rightly)paranoid about having a fucking forge in his garage.




lindz: both people work and they don't have kids 'early'. Only way I managed 10% down on my house was to stave off my wife's hormones until she was almost 29. That successful home ownership(in some areas) requires two incomes to save a decent amount of money during that decade before risk for birth defects start to rise is bit fucked up, but that's another topic.

Oh, also, stagnant wages and gentrification don't help either.
 

Tuco

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You can rent homes too. Why should we compare renting an apartment to buying a home in regards to typical repairs? That seems to dissimilar to draw any worthy conclusions.
The thread is named rent vs buy housing, what % of people do you think rent apartments vs renting houses?
 

Soygen

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Wouldn't a landlord still be responsible for repairs if you're renting a house? Or am I reading that all wrong?