Service Providers (Internet, TV, Etc)

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
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The only way this would be beneficial to consumers though would probably be to have the government regulate it so that the pricing isn't ridiculous. 10 cents a GB is reasonable. $1 per GB is not(and I bet the cable companies would be closer to that price point, than the 10 cents, if given the opportunity to choose themselves)
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
4,931
11,427
Its cities that will bend over backwards to appease Google. Its why google fiber won't touch the northeast because the layers of local government that make the red tape a nightmare.
Also, they specifically chose cities that are labeled as up-and-coming or as fastest growing.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
4,931
11,427
The only way this would be beneficial to consumers though would probably be to have the government regulate it so that the pricing isn't ridiculous. 10 cents a GB is reasonable. $1 per GB is not(and I bet the cable companies would be closer to that price point, than the 10 cents, if given the opportunity to choose themselves)
If they tried to dramatically increase prices in captive markets, the FCC would hammer them.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
<Silver Donator>
14,473
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Its cities that will bend over backwards to appease Google. Its why google fiber won't touch the northeast because the layers of local government that make the red tape a nightmare.
This. Ditto for San Francisco. Remember when Google tried to give free WiFi in SF? Hippies of all sorts opposed it for every reason from fear of radio waves to just plain hatred of a corporation for being a corporation. The self righteous windbags in SF HATE Google and the moron city supervisors listen to them so there won't be Google fiber in SF any time soon.
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
2,998
4,613
Comcast cap is coming Dec 1st... Prepare yourselves Little Rock, Arkansas; Houma, LaPlace and Shreveport, Louisiana; Chattanooga, Greenville, Johnson City/Gray, Tennessee; and Galax, Virginia

Comcast Dramatically Expanding Usage Cap Areas December 1 | DSLReports, ISP Information
I've seen people say that Comcast's meter is widely off on data usage. Like the day before they implemented the caps, a person was a at 162gb, the day after, 292gb. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Comcast is purposely misstated data usage in order to generate more profit for themselves.
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
I've seen people say that Comcast's meter is widely off on data usage. Like the day before they implemented the caps, a person was a at 162gb, the day after, 292gb. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Comcast is purposely misstated data usage in order to generate more profit for themselves.
I hear this all the time (I live in an area with lots of capped satellite connections). The truth of the matter is that 99% of end users have no idea what their computer is actually doing, how to view current connections and throughput on their routers, or what processes consume more data than others.

When you have fast speeds, it is quite easy to rack up 150gb in a day. That is only 16Mbps for <24 hours. Simply updating your steam library might do that. Or, perhaps the customer's wireless network has been compromised.

The average consumer has no idea how to accurately test, analyze, or troubleshoot their connection.
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
2,998
4,613
I hear this all the time (I live in an area with lots of capped satellite connections). The truth of the matter is that 99% of end users have no idea what their computer is actually doing, how to view current connections and throughput on their routers, or what processes consume more data than others.

When you have fast speeds, it is quite easy to rack up 150gb in a day. That is only 16Mbps for <24 hours. Simply updating your steam library might do that. Or, perhaps the customer's wireless network has been compromised.

The average consumer has no idea how to accurately test, analyze, or troubleshoot their connection.
Yeah but we should certainly trust comcast, who doesn't have a history of fucking over its customers at all. Maybe those people that finally find themselves capped by comcast can pay the extra $30 a month for unlimited data, which comcasts own metering software tells these people that they are close to their cap.
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
Yeah but we should certainly trust comcast, who doesn't have a history of fucking over its customers at all. Maybe those people that finally find themselves capped by comcast can pay the extra $30 a month for unlimited data, which comcasts own metering software tells these people that they are close to their cap.
rrr_img_115381.jpg


No, every customer should learn at least the minimal basics of their internet connection (latency, throughput, jitter, packetloss), but that just isnt going to happen in this day and age. A lot of consumer routers even have total usage tracking built in, but most people don't even know how to log into their router let alone set that up. Comcast still totally sucks dick but I'd wager for every 100 claims of "NO WAY NO WAY I USED ALL THAT" there is probably about 1 legit metering error.

I posted early in this thread that cord cutters were in a savings bubble, and that it wouldn't last. I also posted that we would see one of the following in the very near future on basically every internet connection: slower speeds, caps, or much higher prices (think $200/month). You are replacing TV services, which you paid probably $100/month for + had advertisements, for $60/month (internet + hulu). Until Charlie Sheen cant command $1mill an episode, that is the world that we live in.

EDIT: And to reiterate, I run a small rural ISP, and I do not have any caps. I fucking hate caps. However, instead my customers have to deal with what most of you would literally kill yourselves slow speeds (1.5Mbps to 3Mbps download speeds). I have customers who pass 300gb every single month. And, I have 1 customer who streams Netflix to 4 (four)! devices at the same time on their 1.5Mbps connection. Big downloads suck for them, but it is rather impressive what you can accomplish with slower speeds. All of my competitors offer faster speeds and no caps as well, but they bleed customers due to peak time congestion. Mine all have rock solid jitter, low latency, and advertised speeds during peak hours. In 5 years, I have lost a total of 3 customers to my competitors (<1%).
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
<Silver Donator>
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Comcast would certainly do shitty things, but that is straight up fraud that would be extremely easy to catch them doing at which point they would be in deep shit. Comcast may be evil but they aren't stupid.
 

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,429
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You mean the deep shit they got in when they started shaping Netflix traffic? And by deep shit, I mean more money from Netflix.
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
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4,613
rrr_img_115381.jpg


No, every customer should learn at least the minimal basics of their internet connection (latency, throughput, jitter, packetloss), but that just isnt going to happen in this day and age. A lot of consumer routers even have total usage tracking built in, but most people don't even know how to log into their router let alone set that up. Comcast still totally sucks dick but I'd wager for every 100 claims of "NO WAY NO WAY I USED ALL THAT" there is probably about 1 legit metering error.

I posted early in this thread that cord cutters were in a savings bubble, and that it wouldn't last. I also posted that we would see one of the following in the very near future on basically every internet connection: slower speeds, caps, or much higher prices (think $200/month). You are replacing TV services, which you paid probably $100/month for + had advertisements, for $60/month (internet + hulu). Until Charlie Sheen cant command $1mill an episode, that is the world that we live in.

EDIT: And to reiterate, I run a small rural ISP, and I do not have any caps. I fucking hate caps. However, instead my customers have to deal with what most of you would literally kill yourselves slow speeds (1.5Mbps to 3Mbps download speeds). I have customers who pass 300gb every single month. And, I have 1 customer who streams Netflix to 4 (four)! devices at the same time on their 1.5Mbps connection. Big downloads suck for them, but it is rather impressive what you can accomplish with slower speeds. All of my competitors offer faster speeds and no caps as well, but they bleed customers due to peak time congestion. Mine all have rock solid jitter, low latency, and advertised speeds during peak hours. In 5 years, I have lost a total of 3 customers to my competitors (<1%).
Its very possible that a lot of people don't know how much data they are using but I'll side with the consumer every time over Comcast, a company with a history of screwing over their customers. The fact that comcast will let people buy their way out of the caps for an extra $30 a month, just proves that their caps are in place to generate extra profit for Comcast and to stifle streaming in favor of comcast's own video services.
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
Its very possible that a lot of people don't know how much data they are using but I'll side with the consumer every time over Comcast, a company with a history of screwing over their customers. The fact that comcast will let people buy their way out of the caps for an extra $30 a month, just proves that their caps are in place to generate extra profit for Comcast and to stifle streaming in favor of comcast's own video services.
I'd wager it is more because it costs money to move data (infrastructure or oversell). So, the more data you move the more it costs Comcast. The more data the average customer consumes, the more they have to decrease their oversell ratio to account for the increased load, or invest in infrastructure upgrades.

I envy your ignorance to the growing idiocracy though. Comcast fucking sucks dick, but the average internet user is nearly retarded.

EDIT: I didnt address the streaming services, but yes, comcast will most definitely find a way to recoup their lost TV services revenue. That's what businesses do with change. They dont just go "Well shit, too bad we werent the first. Oh well, lets just take in half the money we used to"
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,615
34,165
Comcast would certainly do shitty things, but that is straight up fraud that would be extremely easy to catch them doing at which point they would be in deep shit. Comcast may be evil but they aren't stupid.
I caught them packet shaping and terminating TCP connections. They simply handwaved and insisted it must be my equipment. Strangely it stopped.

They would absolutely do that and just blame some bullshit process. Are you going to sue because you say that you only used 30GBPS less than they did and they charged you $30 erroneously? They'll back the charge off and that's that.

Comcast is the devil.
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
You are still able to implement QoS and connlimits as a provider to manage network performance. You just can't target specific traffic. It was probably just a bad route or interface somewhere though.

I had a customer freaking out because they couldn't get to some shit website, but they could on their Verizon phone. I researched it and it was some broken route about 5 states over on some HE circuit. 2 days later it was working again. The customer called to apologize because they were an asshole and didn't beleive it wasn't on my end and I couldn't fix it.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,615
34,165
You are still able to implement QoS and connlimits as a provider to manage network performance. You just can't target specific traffic. It was probably just a bad route or interface somewhere though.

I had a customer freaking out because they couldn't get to some shit website, but they could on their Verizon phone. I researched it and it was some broken route about 5 states over on some HE circuit. 2 days later it was working again. The customer called to apologize because they were an asshole and didn't beleive it wasn't on my end and I couldn't fix it.
Yea, not actually. I mean they were doing it more viciously - they were actually doing TCP resets by altering the packet headers. I had logs from a server I was testing it on because I couldn't download a P2P patch (I think from the old wow installer) at the time.

It was actually investigated by the FCC and started the whole ball rolling on the net neutrality thing:

FCC Rules Against Comcast for BitTorrent Blocking | Electronic Frontier Foundation
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
Yea, not actually. I mean they were doing it more viciously - they were actually doing TCP resets by altering the packet headers. I had logs from a server I was testing it on because I couldn't download a P2P patch (I think from the old wow installer) at the time.

It was actually investigated by the FCC and started the whole ball rolling on the net neutrality thing:

FCC Rules Against Comcast for BitTorrent Blocking | Electronic Frontier Foundation
Yes that happened in 2007. I thought you were speaking of something that hasn't already been addressed by the FCC.

God damnit now it sounds like I am championing Comcast again. My whole original point is that MOST claims of bogus usage are going to be either A)User ignorance as to how many bits fit in the tubes or B)Hijacked wifi. There will be occasional metering errors but they are likely very very rare. Outright meter fraud is probably never going to happen.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,615
34,165
Yes that happened in 2007. I thought you were speaking of something that hasn't already been addressed by the FCC.

God damnit now it sounds like I am championing Comcast again. My whole original point is that MOST claims of bogus usage are going to be either A)User ignorance as to how many bits fit in the tubes or B)Hijacked wifi. There will be occasional metering errors but they are likely very very rare. Outright meter fraud is probably never going to happen.
Do network appliances that meter connections go through a certification and testing process by state regulator boards that deal with weights and measures? Guessing not.
 

Remit_sl

shitlord
521
-1
Do network appliances that meter connections go through a certification and testing process by state regulator boards that deal with weights and measures? Guessing not.
All bit meters must pass the 7 stages of worthiness as foreshadowed by the regional high priestess and thus be certified as lacking to all maleficent or equitable misgivings.