Shōgun

Cybsled said:

The hints were there. Like his brother shows up and he is like “I heard you have a trained barbarian!” and he would dismiss Blackthorne like he was a toddler

Toronaga demonstrates that being a villain or a hero depends on what side of history you end up on. Toronaga was committed enough to his goal that he let his best bro in the world die (even though it’s clear it was emotionally destroying) and was okay sacrificing pieces on the board to secure a win

His win united Japan and made it stronger in the medium term, although the closed nature eventually took a toll and it took the Meiji Restoration to pull out of that rut

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Like I said, he brought him entertainment like a new puppy. The teaching him to dive scene really seemed like he was just a pet for entertainment in retrospect. Breaking it down it really is a chess like story, sacrificed the queen for a risky win

spronk said:

I also wonder how people will see Toranaga, he's 100% a ruthless tier S villain but I get the feeling most people won't see him that way.

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Ruthless for sure but I don't know about villain. Definite gray area. He spared more lives than anything right?

Homsar said:

The teaching him to dive scene really seemed like he was just a pet for entertainment in retrospect

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There was additional subtext to that scene: Toronaga was secretly getting Blackthorne to bathe (at that point, he had not washed at all)

Cybsled said:

There was additional subtext to that scene: Toronaga was secretly getting Blackthorne to bathe (at that point, he had not washed at all)

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The ending in the book I guess is difficult to translate to film but it's narrated through everything in Toronagas head? I think that's why a lot of people interpreted it more of an open ending for a sequel on the show. Toronaga I don't think is a villain, just looks at what the outcome of a death. He loses intelligence/friend if blackthorne kills himself and he gains nothing

I mean the guy is having innocent people executed in the town "looking" for those who burnt Blackthornes ship.

I think the book makes it clear it was an excuse to purge spies/loyalists to Ishido

Ome said:

I mean the guy is having innocent people executed in the town "looking" for those who burnt Blackthornes ship.

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You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.

I mean there's lots of room for sequels without a book. Just tell the history and spice it up a bit.

I was sad to see Yabushige go. I really liked that character. Doesn't anyone go Ronin or fight? Seems silly that these strong swordsman lay down and die all the time.

I think its open. Blackthorne gets his ship finally built

Toranaga just loves democracy and will definitely set aside the powers of the Shogun once the threat of the separatists has ended

i initially took the "old man in London" visions to also mean the episode was a bit of a death bed flashback but the fact that Mariko's rosary was dropped in the exact moment where Blackthorne transitions between current and "forward", that Toranaga says Blackthorne will never leave Japan and he will burn every ship he builds if he needs to, and real life history has me concluding sadly that Blackthorne does stay in Japan for the rest of his life, marries a local woman, and dies there. He has become part of The Japans, the final test was putting the lives of his villagers above his own life.

Kinda fascinating that this series took place ~100 years before the golden age of piracy and even the plundering of the infamous Mughal treasure ship Ganji by Henry Avery in the late 1600s. I just started rewatching Black Sails last night (now on Netflix) and it makes a great companion show. We really need a good space piracy and Empire of Man future show, hope Cavill can deliver with Warhammer 40k.

It has been a while since I gave a show a 5 star rating.

The show is spot on for pretty much every angle. There is no woke what so ever in this show. Anna Sawai(Toda Mariko) is stunningly beautiful and does a fantastic job portraying her character. That is how you portray a strong woman. Hiroyuki Sanada (Lord Yoshii Toranaga) was the perfect cast for the role. Cosmos Jarvis(Anjin-san) took a bit to get used to with the deep voice and mannerism. I did a double take, because the actor bares a strong resemblance too Tom Hardy. I even think their voices are similar.

The scenery was beautiful. The CGI was sometimes a little off but it was plenty good enough. The story was magnificent with fantastic dialogue. I loved the parts with Mariko politically translating Anjin-san's statements as to not offend, but still keep within the subject. I know beauty is subjective but when they showed Yuka Kouri(Kiku) come out as the best of the best of the payed girls, I just thought "No, Anna Sawai is a level above".

Highly recommend to anybody for watching and especially if you enjoy period pieces. Pay the month for Hulu and enjoy this master piece. It has been a while since a show has been this well done.

They could do a season two. I am not sure if it could be as good though. But by all means, please prove me wrong....

Mahes said:

I did a double take, because the actor bares a strong resemblance too Tom Hardy. I even think their voices are similar.

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he was going for the Richard Burton style

Someone here called him Tom Hardly lol

If you liked the show, and i can't imagine what kind of slack jawed faggot wouldn't, definitely read the book it goes into a lot more inner personal monologues of major characters especially Toranaga and has a bit more about the western european politics of the period.

It also has a fuck ton of stuff about anal beads, pillowing, and farting which I did not expect. its a pretty massive book although the editions with Tom Hardly on the cover are split into 2 books, Shogun I and Shogun II. There are like 6 more books by the author covering asia as well but none in the same time period.

I haven't read them yet but other recommendations I've seen on reddit are Taiko about the Taiko's rise to power (Toranagas boss), Confessions of a Yakuza (similar rags to riches and power plays), Samurai Warrior (about another white guy who became a samurai), Samurai Warfare about japanese warfare during multiple shogun periods, Shogun: The Life and Times of Tokugawa which is a biography of Toranaga

i hope the success of Shogun spawns a bunch of historical well done dramas about other empires like ancient China, Mughals, Egypt, or even something like the Mayans or Aztec could be very interesting. or for the lulz We Wuz Kangz

The show was great, but the last 3 episodes were a let down based on the lead up.

I can get behind "I am the fucking Shogun" when that character does something on screen. But that was entirely off screen "I'm smarter than everyone here's a metaphorical answer to all your questions" ending.

They didn't even show the pulling of the strings, we are just expected to accept it.

Meh.

Khane said:

The show was great, but the last 3 episodes were a let down based on the lead up.

I can get behind "I am the fucking Shogun" when that character does something on screen. But that was entirely off screen "I'm smarter than everyone here's a metaphorical answer to all your questions" ending.

They didn't even show the pulling of the strings, we are just expected to accept it.

Meh.

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Yeah they definitely blew their production budget in the first 4 or 5 episodes. I expected 9 and 10 to pick it back up but nah. Just lots of interior conversations, very little in the way of epicness. No battles just a few hints. You never even see Ishido get his comeuppance. I felt a little let down with that ending.

Khane said:

The show was great, but the last 3 episodes were a let down based on the lead up.

I can get behind "I am the fucking Shogun" when that character does something on screen. But that was entirely off screen "I'm smarter than everyone here's a metaphorical answer to all your questions" ending.

They didn't even show the pulling of the strings, we are just expected to accept it.

Meh.

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I see that but the story isn't about some epic battle. I would say the budget got hit but there is never any epic fight scene that's supposed to take place. Its all just a political story, you would think Blackburns canon knowledge would do something but no