Should you tip the waitress and how much thread

Rezz_sl said:

For bare minimum service? Yeah, if that's all they do, they are already getting paid for that. If they can't pull a tip from a table, they deserve the $8 an hour they are going to get for doing a mediocre job. And odds are they aren't going to be waiting for very long (here) if that is all they do. Like I said, after dealing with them for awhile, I have literally zero empathy for the majority of servers who give average service yet expect tips above and beyond their pay. Cali might be a bit different from DC when it comes to wage minimums and state law, but if servers don't get tipped they make minimum wage here. The restaurant ends up footing part of the difference if they sell lots of food and report zero tips, which means the server doing that is looking for a new job fairly quickly.

I'll definitely say this: we generally don't get people who tip shitty by principle. Coming into my restaurant in the area I live in means you are generally middle class+ or trying to impress someone. So if someone doesn't get a tip/bad tip? It is 99.99% because they did a bad job. Or they got the Armenian guy who comes in and orders six lobsters and tips 8.25% on a 500 tab. The new guy/girl always gets that gentleman.

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Before you post, please clarify you are not from the US. US waiters get below minimum wage, so stiffing a table for average service is bad form, and being a cheap fuck. So much for knowing infinitely more about the subject

Uh, in California, Minimum wage for tipped and untipped employees is 8.00 an hour. That is post tips for tipped positions. If, after they count out their tips and they don't amount to at least 8.25% of the total sales from that server, the difference comes out of their paycheck down to a minimum of 8.00 an hour. If they make more, they get taxed appropriately which can (and does) reduce their physical paycheck by an appropriate amount to cover the difference of tax that should come out of their tip money. If they don't have income greater than 8.00 an hour after figuring in their tipped income on top of their hourly wage - taxes, then the restaurant covers the difference to make sure that, combined with tips and income, they are making 8.00 an hour.

Hush.

Rezz_sl said:

Uh, in California, Minimum wage for tipped and untipped employees is 8.00 an hour. That is post tips for tipped positions. If, after they count out their tips and they don't amount to at least 8.25% of the total sales from that server, the difference comes out of their paycheck down to a minimum of 8.00 an hour. If they make more, they get taxed appropriately which can (and does) reduce their physical paycheck by an appropriate amount to cover the difference of tax that should come out of their tip money. If they don't have income greater than 8.00 an hour after figuring in their tipped income on top of their hourly wage - taxes, then the restaurant covers the difference to make sure that, combined with tips and income, they are making 8.00 an hour.

Hush.

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No idea about California law, but basically you are a cheap fuck. Got it. Everyone knows they cover the difference, and everyone in the restaurant business should know being a waiter is not worth minimum wage. I get not tipping for bad service, but stiffing for average service? Hope you are not a regular at any restaurants...

Dis_sl said:

No idea about California law, but basically you are a cheap fuck. Got it. Everyone knows they cover the difference, and everyone in the restaurant business should know being a waiter is not worth minimum wage. I get not tipping for bad service, but stiffing for average service? Hope you are not a regular at any restaurants...

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I'm a regular at several, actually. And I get good service 99% of the time. Not average. So I tip fairly well most the time. Glad we got that out of the way.

You must be a shitty waiter with a sense of entitlement because you can take orders and refill water. I would love to stiff you for terrible service =D

Edit: I don't tip people for doing their job. I tip them for doing their job well. Their job is to take orders, refill drinks and make sure people come back. They better they are at it, the more they should make. If all they do is the bare minimum, they don't deserve to make more than minimum wage. I say this as someone who has waited and bartended in a few types of restaurants. If you are in it because you think you deserve money because it "isn't worth minimum wage" to do your job? Then you don't need to be in the industry.

Hospitality isn't for everyone, and given your attitude it isn't for you.

Rezz_sl said:

I'm a regular at several, actually. And I get good service 99% of the time. Not average. So I tip fairly well most the time. Glad we got that out of the way.

You must be a shitty waiter with a sense of entitlement because you can take orders and refill water. I would love to stiff you for terrible service =D

Edit: I don't tip people for doing their job. I tip them for doing their job well. Their job is to take orders, refill drinks and make sure people come back. They better they are at it, the more they should make. If all they do is the bare minimum, they don't deserve to make more than minimum wage. I say this as someone who has waited and bartended in a few types of restaurants. If you are in it because you think you deserve money because it "isn't worth minimum wage" to do your job? Then you don't need to be in the industry.

Hospitality isn't for everyone, and given your attitude it isn't for you.

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Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I got out of the food industry a long, long time ago. As for how good I was waiting tables through college? You can check my past posts for my thoughts on being a waiter, and why I did it. Something tells me you are full of shit, and tip on average service. Either way bro, you are a douche, but I feel sorry for you because you work in a restaurant still so I guess it is ok that you are a douche.

Dis_sl said:

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I got out of the food industry a long, long time ago. As for how good I was waiting tables through college? You can check my past posts for my thoughts on being a waiter, and why I did it. Something tells me you are full of shit, and tip on average service. Either way bro, you are a douche, but I feel sorry for you because you work in a restaurant still so I guess it is ok that you are a douche.

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Shitty waiter confirmed.

Edit:

And since you love my posting so much, I'll explain a few things. The average scenario I outlined up there? Is during normal business. If I get that type of service at 6pm on a Friday? They get tipped and probably well. If I get that service on a slow-ass Tuesday? They most definitely are not getting 20%. There are such things as mitigating factors, and nobody is immune to them. Two things I hate hearing from my servers or from people who wait on me: "I'm so busy!" and "I'll get to you when I can" because both of those? Are terrible things to tell a person. Nobody is mentally handicapped enough to see a person running around at mach 9 and barely handling the stress and go "well fuck that guy, he didn't ask me if I wanted a side of extra sauce! NO TIP" or anything even remotely like it.

My scenarios I outlined above? Are for what you receive as a customer in an environment that doesn't have mitigating factors. What I tell my wait staff is thus: If you can go above. DO SO. If you can't? TRY. And they do, and they make shitloads of money, and I get 1-2 complaints a week max with 300-500 top slow nights and 1k+ busy ones. Anyone that walks into a super busy restaurant knows that they are paying the price for choosing such an environment for their meal and do/should tip appropriately.

What I am referring to is when you have 50 people in a building eating and 5-7 waitstaff. If you don't get what I consider Good-Great service consistently in that environment? They. Don't. Deserve. Your. Money. The problem is, lots of waiters/waitresses tend to fall into the take order-refill water cycle even when it is slow and they need to be working the tables as much as they can without seeming overbearing. That type of behavior does not deserve a reward. If they are that tired/worn out/whatever excuse they have, pass the table to someone capable of providing a superior service at the time.

I apologize if I come off sounding crass, but it really is that simple. You can call that outlook douchey all you want, but it comes from someone who has been there on all sides of the situation. And yeah, I will definitely give zero tip if I get mediocre service when the server is capable of more and the environment is conducive to it. I am pretty sure I didn't say otherwise.

Rezz_sl said:

Shitty waiter confirmed.

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haha not sure if this is suppose to make me rage or something. That is like someone telling me I was a really shitty burger flipper

I'm pretty sure rezz is a terrible manager.

Draegan_sl said:

I'm pretty sure rezz is a terrible manager.

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Who has Fridays and Saturdays off!

In America? Of course you tip unless you're some kind of white trash. How much you tip depends on the bill, the service, and the situation. If you can't afford to leave a tip for being satisfactorily served then stay the fuck home and make your cabbage you fucking poor, inbred, badly raised excuse for a white person.

I do tip more when the wait staff leaves me the fuck alone. I do try to mention it when they first come over though. "If I need something I'll try to catch your eye. If I don't, that's my fault not yours. Otherwise, don't hover." The best waiters are the ones that you barely notice.

I think another big problem here is that some people think 15-20% is a good tip, rather than an average one, so they give that for good service and worse for average service. I usually match the level of service with the tip, like a sane person. Bad service/tip - 10% or less Average service/tip - 15-20% Good service/tip - 20-25% Excellent service/tip - 30%+. You can disagree with what I would consider to be a standard, or rationalize your bad tip, all you want. It doesn't make you less of a douche or a good tipper. Also, lowering the tip to the "bad" level just because you expect "good" to "excellent" level service and received "average" does not make your bad tip ok. Your tip is bad and you should feel bad.

There are many variables though, per person, per visit, per restaurant, per server. I always tip 20% as a baseline; more for things like weather (if it's delivery) or exceptional service.

But it all depends on what you consider bad, average, or good service. If you've never worked in the industry, I think you'd be really surprised at the amount of actual "work" a server can get away with doing, and still be considered good. Essentially, you just have to not be a total fuckup, and that can be hard for many people. So in this case, if you can't even do the small things, then there is zero reason I should be made to feel bad because you aren't in the right profession. It's commissioned based service in reality, except what the server is selling is not the food, it's the service. Unfortunately, we use percentages based off of food cost to determine the actual tip, so it gets dicey. The server is literally not responsible for shit all except bringing you your food, and creating a good and pleasant environment where your needs are seen to. If you're tipping 30% because they're bringing you your water and your meal and managing not to fuck up the temperature on steak, you are getting hosed.

Truth be told, I will probably never go below my baseline unless they're fucking awful, because I feel like an asshole otherwise and because if I plan on coming back to the restaurant I'd really like my food not spit in. It's a terrible cycle. Bad service begets bad tip, begets bad service.

The way we view servers is incorrect; we feel like assholes because we've always been told that a tip is required, yet at the same time, it is supposed to be a gauge of services rendered. If you tip as per the service you are getting, someone is probably going to be pissed off. It's a social norm to tip, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it. (And that includes me, despite having worked in the industry and knowing first hand.)

It comes down to not being a cheap fuck, and you all know who you are. If you don't want to tip because the service has directly lessened your experience, then that is fine, but don't go around looking for reasons to tip less. Oh my god, the waiter didn't fill my Coke up enough, his service is terrible. Fuck you, normal people don't drink 7 glasses of Coke in 1 hour you fat piece of shit. Have some common sense for fucks sake. Most people who are stiff have never had the experience of depending on other peoples generosity to pay their bills. Service jobs usually suck dick, so giving a couple extra bucks to people busting their ass to get by is ok. I never tip less than 15%, and usually will tip 20-25% when I know they did a good job.

Agenor_sl said:

Would love to hear what people here define as "average" or "bad" service.

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Average service- take order, deliver order, off-chance there is a mix-up with an order offer to correct, check on table about 10-15 minute intervals or be in the vicinity where I can catch your eye, collect money in timely fashion.

Bad service- Sit down with us when you take the order (Nearly anywhere other than Hooters) because your feet hurt/other excuse/think it gets a bigger tip/whatever, mistakenly think I care about how much you hate your job and that I want to hear about it or your gossip about other customers, mix-up order and we get it corrected by someone else only to have you come over and take away the correct thing to mix-up again, bring the bill at the conclusion of the meal and then are not seen again to take payment for 20+ minutes when paying/tipping on card.

Great service- Pleasant, upbeat, professional, able to catch your eye within a 10 minute span if something is needed, not guilty of committing any of the acts outlined under bad service above

Above and beyond service-Same as great service but doesn't come over at an inopportune time, ie. in-depth discussion or intimate moment, will catch your eye just to check everything is satisfactory and turn and go the other way until a more opportune time. Knows what they are selling, and when to pitch them. Doesn't choose the exact moment when you've just taken a bite of food to spring out of nowhere to ask "Everything all right?" Wtf headnod/headshake, try to chew faster while holding up the finger signal for 'one moment' what is the correct response here? 'Really good' servers seem to magically know when you're free to answer the inquiry.

Againthis pertains to places at the level of Chilis, Applebees, etc.a casual meal out at chain joints, and the bad isn't that common but has all occurred at some point. Service seems a mixed bag at them even on slow nights.

Further, one negative criterion does not make bad service, but if you're fucking up everything possible you could, then yes bad service. A big peeve is waitstaff under the mistaken impression I've come there just to spend time with them (sitting, complaining, etc.) and not to spend a meal out with the person I'm with.

Agenor_sl said:

imagine they did do away with tips and just paid these servers a wage. If you think service is bad now it would be way worse if they didn't have to kiss ass for a tip.

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It's like some of you don't realize that there are restaurants outside of America. I've had nothing but amazing service, fantastic food and the price is still very affordable. The servers don't resent me because I expect them to do cartwheels to make minimum wage off my generosity. They're paid to be nice, they're nice and if they aren't nice they get fucking fired by their manager who isn't going to tolerate one of his employees being a shit head to customers. A reliable income and customers who are nice because they don't hold that 15% tip over your head make for happier servers. Who would have thought.

You know who you should be tipping? Your plumber or the cable installation guy. Anybody that does work in your home.

Ever watch as he meticulously cleans up after himself, washing your toilet or vacuuming up any dust from drilling a hole in the wall? Yeah, they don't do that here. I had to scrape concrete mix and spent 2 days mopping and sweeping to clean up after the plumber installed our bathtub. I had to throw out my sons baby bathtub because the plumber had used that to mix the concrete in. I'm still finding bits of wire from after the internet guys left a month ago. It was kind of funny watching him take the modem out of the box and then throw the box, instructions, twist ties and plastic etc...onto the floor like he didn't give a shit.

Zehn - Vhex_sl said:

You know who you should be tipping? Your plumber or the cable installation guy. Anybody that does work in your home.

Ever watch as he meticulously cleans up after himself, washing your toilet or vacuuming up any dust from drilling a hole in the wall? Yeah, they don't do that here. I had to scrape concrete mix and spent 2 days mopping and sweeping to clean up after the plumber installed our bathtub. I had to throw out my sons baby bathtub because the plumber had used that to mix the concrete in. I'm still finding bits of wire from after the internet guys left a month ago. It was kind of funny watching him take the modem out of the box and then throw the box, instructions, twist ties and plastic etc...onto the floor like he didn't give a shit.

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Absolutely agree, should take care of repair/maintenance/installation people andtreatthem well whether home or office. Many of them seem to have to put up with so much crap and yet there are those who go to such lengths to keep your home/office as meticulous as they found it. On the flip-side have had some track mud from one end of the place to the other, find front doors wide-open and no one in sight. Sadly have some refuse tips but many will at least take a cold drink when offered.

Big Phoenix_sl said:

How in the hell did the hospitality industry become tied to tips?

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You never tip your nurse?

Rezz_sl said:

If, after they count out their tips and they don't amount to at least 8.25% of the total sales from that server, the difference comes out of their paycheck down to a minimum of 8.00 an hour. If they make more, they get taxed appropriately which can (and does) reduce their physical paycheck by an appropriate amount to cover the difference of tax that should come out of their tip money

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I've yet to meet a server who accurately reports tips. Granted this is anecdotal but every server I've ever known reports just enough to stay above minimum wage and to not get caught they just bite the bullet and report the same amount if they don't pull in enough for some reason that week.