So, Hep C cured.

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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Ok so patents=collusion? Also, patents=monopoly? Patents=dishwashing detergent, yes or no?

Lolololol

All the "but medicine is different" people, here's a thought experiment. Don't answer because I'm done responding to this thread. I made a mistake and accidentally got into a real argument on the internet and now feel foolish for having done so. Just think about it for yourself. Say Apple spends x years and y dollars developing some kind of 3d touchscreen technology (like in Minority Report). Samsung reverse engineers it and creates their own, but patents prevent them from releasing it. Ask yourself (1)who owns the technology and (2) what are the patents protecting? If samsung can sell theirs right away, apple will still make buckets of money, after all. Finally, (3)why would that scenario be bad for the consumer in the long term?

If you can't comprehend the answer to that last question, stop here because your understanding is insufficient.

Final question: how is health care different from other things in a way that the reasoning for (3) no longer applies?

Again, I don't care about your answer. Once we adopt a position publicly we are committed to defending it. So don't defend it. Think about it for yourself

I dont know why you insist on equating Apple with Pharma.

One makes toys, the other one makes drugs who can save people from death. If you are too stupid to be unable to tell the difference, you dont belong in this conversation.

The patent system when it comes to drugs is fundamentally broken.




So you keep dodging my question. Are you fine with companies charging $10 per 20 oz bottle of water?
 

Hachima

Molten Core Raider
884
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It's a drug on insurance formularies, so people hit catastrophic coverage and pay a fraction of the cost. Insurance companies paying this price is cheaper than what they pay for current treatments. So drug companies find the sweet spot where insurance companies are willing to keep the drug on formularies.

Exprss Scripts may put some pressure on it though, but for now it sounds like its on the formulary for them too.Could ESI block Sovaldi from its formulary? | Drug Store News
 

Siddar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I dont know why you insist on equating Apple with Pharma.

One makes toys, the other one makes drugs who can save people from death. If you are too stupid to be unable to tell the difference, you dont belong in this conversation.

The patent system when it comes to drugs is fundamentally broken.




So you keep dodging my question. Are you fine with companies charging $10 per 20 oz bottle of water?
What is difference between paying 10$ for a bottle of water and paying $20 for a steak?

By the way your water example already happens.

http://www2.costco.com/Browse/Produc...opnav=national

The patent on water expired a couple billion years ago by the way.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Ok so patents=collusion? Also, patents=monopoly? Patents=dishwashing detergent, yes or no?

Lolololol

All the "but medicine is different" people, here's a thought experiment. Don't answer because I'm done responding to this thread. I made a mistake and accidentally got into a real argument on the internet and now feel foolish for having done so. Just think about it for yourself. Say Apple spends x years and y dollars developing some kind of 3d touchscreen technology (like in Minority Report). Samsung reverse engineers it and creates their own, but patents prevent them from releasing it. Ask yourself (1)who owns the technology and (2) what are the patents protecting? If samsung can sell theirs right away, apple will still make buckets of money, after all. Finally, (3)why would that scenario be bad for the consumer in the long term?

If you can't comprehend the answer to that last question, stop here because your understanding is insufficient.

Final question: how is health care different from other things in a way that the reasoning for (3) no longer applies?

Again, I don't care about your answer. Once we adopt a position publicly we are committed to defending it. So don't defend it. Think about it for yourself
This was the worst post I've read in awhile, thanks brosef.
 

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
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They're not evil. They're not anything. They're an entity built to produce profit. That is why they shouldn't be a legally recognized individual and why our country is going to fall into the shit abyss sooner than later.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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Gilead and other companies don't care about humanity, they care only about the profit. I hope everyone read this article :Minimum costs to produce Hepatitis C Direct Acting Antivirals for access programs in developing countries
To charge over 10 000 % for the treatment from the lethal disease is a pure evil . There is and there will be no excuse for this.
Regards, HCV positive
I think it's quite excessive to call them "evil". "Invented cure for horrible disease" and "evil" seems almost paradoxical when used in the same sentence. People have been lamenting for years how pharma is not interested in finding cures, but instead only care about money making therapies that are simply meant to extend life and maximize profits. Now we have this company that has a cure for the first significant disease since what, Polio, and they're evil? They are just one cog in the vast broken wheel that is the American health care system. Doctors/labs/hospitals overcharging because they only get a fraction of what they ask for from insurance, thereby screwing patients with the balance. Insurance companies screwing doctors/hospitals by reimbursing only a fraction of the costs, and screwing patients with denied claims and burdensome pre-auth processes. Patients then screwing doctors/hospitals because they can't afford to the balance. Imho as long as profit is tied to one's right to life, the system is forever fucked.

In any case, this is a *fraction* of what multiple years of cancer therapy would cost, which rarely ever even results in a "cure", so though 80K is definitely a whack load of cash, to me it seems like a fair price to pay to cheat death. If I knew I had another 5-10 years to live with Hep C, I wouldn't even blink an eye at 80K. I would take a 2nd mortgage on my house and be happy I'm alive
 

Kuriin

Just a Nurse
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I love that you guys are saying this is the first cure for HepC. News flash, it's not. The first cure was made in the 90s with Ribavirin and PegIntron or Pegasys. It was later updated for those who failed treatment and protease inhibitors came into play with Victrelis or Incivek. The only difference that Gilead, BMS, and the other companies are doing is trying to get rid of interferon treatment as it causes severe side effects. Again, it's NOT the first cure. It just happens to have a higher cure rate percentage than previous treatments.
 

Numbers_sl

shitlord
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According to the studies done in the article I posted, big pharma hasn't developed much of note recently other than increasing numbers of terrible side effects.
 

Kuriin

Just a Nurse
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Numbers is accurate in that research has dwindled, especially in the antibiotics market. We have superbugs coming out and no one wants to delve into antibiotics anymore. VRE is a real thing now. ;\ The only reason why pharma are doing HepC tx is because people are just now (in the past 5-10 years) experiencing the effects of cirrhosis. They want to jump in on this market before it's all cured.
 

Frenzied Wombat

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I love that you guys are saying this is the first cure for HepC. News flash, it's not. The first cure was made in the 90s with Ribavirin and PegIntron or Pegasys. It was later updated for those who failed treatment and protease inhibitors came into play with Victrelis or Incivek. The only difference that Gilead, BMS, and the other companies are doing is trying to get rid of interferon treatment as it causes severe side effects. Again, it's NOT the first cure. It just happens to have a higher cure rate percentage than previous treatments.
So the millions of people in the US that have Hep C, and if there has already been a cure since the '90's, are all these people still currently infected because the side effects were too bad, they can't afford treatment, or because the existing treatment hasn't worked? Not disputing what you are saying, but trying to understand why there are millions of people still infected if there's already a cure.
 

BigPharma_sl

shitlord
4
0
I think it's quite excessive to call them "evil". "Invented cure for horrible disease" and "evil" seems almost paradoxical when used in the same sentence. People have been lamenting for years how pharma is not interested in finding cures, but instead only care about money making therapies that are simply meant to extend life and maximize profits. Now we have this company that has a cure for the first significant disease since what, Polio, and they're evil? They are just one cog in the vast broken wheel that is the American health care system. Doctors/labs/hospitals overcharging because they only get a fraction of what they ask for from insurance, thereby screwing patients with the balance. Insurance companies screwing doctors/hospitals by reimbursing only a fraction of the costs, and screwing patients with denied claims and burdensome pre-auth processes. Patients then screwing doctors/hospitals because they can't afford to the balance. Imho as long as profit is tied to one's right to life, the system is forever fucked.

In any case, this is a *fraction* of what multiple years of cancer therapy would cost, which rarely ever even results in a "cure", so though 80K is definitely a whack load of cash, to me it seems like a fair price to pay to cheat death. If I knew I had another 5-10 years to live with Hep C, I wouldn't even blink an eye at 80K. I would take a 2nd mortgage on my house and be happy I'm alive
Let me exaggerate, but just a bit. Let's say human population is hit by really dangerous and lethal virus, it's spreading rapidly and killing lots of people all around the world. All big pharma companies start to seek for a cure and/or to produce a vaccine and they succeed!!! They spent NNN$ for R&D and calculated that can make pretty good profit selling the drug for 200 $, but the owner of the company - said NO!! it's gonna be 200 000 $ All powerful and rich men get a vaccine or cure and live, all the rest just DIE . They can't fight for the drug, they just can't do anything - they just die !! How does that sound? Pretty good, ah? Yes, it's very good for rich and powerful part of the population: they are saved from the death, the planet is cleansed from overpopulation etc. Something very similar is happening with sofosbuvir and later will definitely happen with daclatasvir. Did I make myself clear ? Or you will continue to rant that all 170 mln HCV positive have 80 K $ available for a treatment ?
Regards,
HCV positive
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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Let me exaggerate, but just a bit. Let's say human population is hit by really dangerous and lethal virus, it's spreading rapidly and killing lots of people all around the world. All big pharma companies start to seek for a cure and/or to produce a vaccine and they succeed!!! They spent NNN$ for R&D and calculated that can make pretty good profit selling the drug for 200 $, but the owner of the company - said NO!! it's gonna be 200 000 $ All powerful and rich men get a vaccine or cure and live, all the rest just DIE . They can't fight for the drug, they just can't do anything - they just die !! How does that sound? Pretty good, ah? Yes, it's very good for rich and powerful part of the population: they are saved from the death, the planet is cleansed from overpopulation etc. Something very similar is happening with sofosbuvir and later will definitely happen with daclatasvir. Did I make myself clear ? Or you will continue to rant that all 170 mln HCV positive have 80 K $ available for a treatment ?
Regards,
HCV positive
Lumie?
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Listen dude, it's unfortunate that you have this terrible disease but don't use that as some crutch to lambaste people who disagree with you and then try to guilt them about giving you shit.

There is also a long history on the internet of people fabricating illnesses to garner attention and sympathy.
 

mixtilplix

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So the millions of people in the US that have Hep C, and if there has already been a cure since the '90's, are all these people still currently infected because the side effects were too bad, they can't afford treatment, or because the existing treatment hasn't worked? Not disputing what you are saying, but trying to understand why there are millions of people still infected if there's already a cure.
Kuriin is right, Hep C has been treatable for a long time. Treatments in the past primarily consisted of interferon injections (PegIntron ) over the course of a couple of months. Unfortunately this treatment is extremely difficult to get through. Interferon is what your body uses to initiate an immune response. Interferon triggers inflammation. Patients who go on interferon treatments basically go through a months long flu to clear the HEP C virus. Most never complete it due to the harsh side-effects.

Here is the warning label for PegIntron on their site:

PegIntron_sl said:
PEGINTRON can cause serious side effects that:

may cause death, or
may worsen certain serious diseases that you may already have.
Sofosbuvir is going to be used in conjunction with Ribavirin and/or PegIntron. Sofosbuvir actually increases the chance of viral clearance to almost 100% and also shortens the treatment time. BTW there are quite a few more Hep C drugs in the pipeline besides Sofosbuvir. It will be interesting to see what Gilead does once those medications have completed their clinical trials.