SOE Becomes Daybreak / Russian shutdown

Well cata is still 4 or 5 years old and the 60 to 80 content is older.

Older content can be preserved, teams just need to be creative, but it can be done. At least dynamically for a short period of time, then reset to it's original state. No reason to let old zones die with todays tech.

I'm never gonna cyber a 42 year old male wood elf druidess in the trees of Kelethin at this rate. FML

Nija_sl said:

PoE is a great example. You mean to tell me you can't play the entire game, up to and including the 'end game' for $0? No shit! You can play the game enough to know if you want to drop 20 bucks on it for stash tabs that then lets you optimally play the end game.

The 50 hours you played prior to deciding you wanted to do the end game is hopefully worth twenty fucking dollars.

That's textbook free to play.

Click to expand...

We were talking about examples that arnt P2W, I consider P2W being able to buy any advantage over a player who isnt paying. In path of exile you buy an economic advantage over the other players. Saying its textbook free to play, id consider it exactly that since just about every cash shop offers p2w options.

Creslin_sl said:

Tons of RPGs exist that are not level based systems.

Level based systems translate pretty poorly to MMOs since they are designed to gate content and limit pace in relatively short games. No one thinking up the rules for like DND in the day thought at all about how levels would translate to games that last decades instead of hours.

@Merrith, ya cata was supposed to revamp all that old content. It's a shame it was the real low point of WoW and they botched it so badly by making everything a cheesy unfunny joke, instead of using it as a chance to actually streamline and quicken the leveling experience all the way up to 85.

Click to expand...

When you says "tons of RPGs exist" are you referring to pen and paper game systems or MMOs? Of all the MMOs I have played since EQ1, all of them have used level based systems except for Asherons Call.

Level-based vs Skill-based is really all a moot point. All that matters is that whatever the underlying RPG mechanics system is, the content of the MMORPG built on top of that system be high quality and entertaining.

In regards to WoW, the pre-MoP content has been dumbed down plus the leveling curve has been significantly reduced to the point even a casual player can get an character up to WoD capable in just a few days time. Blizzard has gone out of their way to speed up the leveling process so that if you roll an alt it won't take you very long to get it up to WoD raid level so that you can rejoin your friends in WoD endgame activities. Is anyone seriously suggesting they make it harder/slower for players to level up their alts?

Miele_sl said:

There is f2p and f2p: swtor has possibily the best shop ever made. You don't really need anything beyond what you'd pay for a cheap game (say 10 or 15 bucks) to buy two or three basic features and become a premium account. The good thing, is that you'd want to buy a ton of shit there, cosmetic and such. If you want to sub, the benefits are many and you get coins monthly to spend on cosmetic stuff.
Swtor for me is great: I pay only a monthly sub and I got a lot of stuff for it and most important, many hours of fun.

Lotro on the other hand is a fucking disaster: aside from being a dated game with clunky gameplay, you have to purchase most of the questing areas. Holy shit whoever came up with that idea...

Click to expand...

You're sitting here saying with a straight face that SWTOR has the best ftp model? I know you like to schill this game but come one. It's one of the worst introduced. They charge for fucking hotbars. That alone puts them in asshole territory.

zzeris_sl said:

I don't consider leveling to be the primary part of an RPG but I played D&D and leveling was not the only value in our groups. It was the roleplaying..Hey maybe D&D would be even more popular if they had spawn camps where you just sat there for hours killing the same mobs? Right?

Click to expand...

People roleplay?

Xaxius_sl said:

Not a single one?

Click to expand...

Haha, it's like FFXIV doesn't exist on this forum or something.

zzeris_sl said:

Exactly and it doesn't fit with the goals of WoW as a decade old game that is based off endgame activities. Blizzard is trying to offer ways for people to play with each other. That is the goal of every development team. SOE did not want levels to be a hindrance to getting people playing together. I don't consider leveling to be the primary part of an RPG but I played D&D and leveling was not the only value in our groups. It was the roleplaying..Hey maybe D&D would be even more popular if they had spawn camps where you just sat there for hours killing the same mobs? Right?

Click to expand...

You roleplay? lol what a creep..

I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore.. Who's calling for long camps? Where is that coming from?

As for the FTP model, I think It can work, it definitely should be explored for a game that's about to die. It really just depends.. I'd personally prefer a sub or even just a server that is sub only. Items sold in cash shops would be better if they were crafted In game by players and used to benefit the in game economy. It really just depends on the game and what it's target audience is. I think we are seeing a lot of games really aiming for a niche, so who knows how they will look to maintain that relationship with the players without losing them.

FTP can work. You just have to develop a game with replayability and enjoyment to the point you want to purchase accessories and items that are ultimately just there to set your character or creations apart from the rest of the world. Essentially I want them to provide me with a great game that hooks me to the point I want all the extras. LoL did that... I loved the game but I had to buy certain skins (I hate to think of how much money I've invested in LoL). I doubt many can relate but I paid a monthly subscription for EQII and bought quite a bit from their shop simply because I had the idea I was going to have an extended tenure in the game and I wanted to purchase some individuality.

I'm fine with FTP as long as the game is good. They can nickel and dime me all they want because ultimately, I have a monthly budget set aside for my game and hobbies and it's all about the same. As long as they can keep their development fueled on the game and not into scheming some type of tiers with various bells and whistles depending on how much I pay I really could care less.

I would prefer a monthly subscription that is reasonable with a cash shop to buy some extras that really have no impact on the game itself. They've announced box sales and VIP for their model. We'll see how it plays out. Right now, I have no reason to doubt these guys so let's see it

EQ1 is actually a great example of a F2P that CAN work. You can play up to a certain point(level 90? with 1k aa?) while never paying for anything. The only two things that really affect you are A. Prestige Gear which you cannot use(Good augs, higher than first tier group gear, rank II spells, etc) and B. Being stuck at a certain level(Can change by just paying for them. think $10 for 500aa?).

The cash store consists of exp potions, pet illusions, ornaments, LoN packs, and random things you used to have to petition for(Race Change, Gender CHange, Name Change, etc). Sure, you can buy bigger bags(32 slot instead of 20 slots), but thats not exactly game breaking. It does suck you can't max out, but to make level 90 with 1kaa is going to take quite a long time anyway, in which case, $14.99 wont seem like its that bad to pay every month.

Not to mention you could just farm plat and buy krono, and never pay a real $.

I despise the AA limit on EQ1 for F2P. I always wanted more people for casual groups. Casual groups aren't what they were from ages ago. Using F2P as fodder for groups would be a pleasant improvement, but they're all gimps. EQ1's F2P is basically an online tutorial. Those players are of no benefit to me, only Daybreak. The AA auto-grant for high levels is like 5k+, but the earnable AA cap for F2P isn't close to that.

Agraza_sl said:

I despise the AA limit on EQ1 for F2P. I always wanted more people for casual groups. Casual groups aren't what they were from ages ago. Using F2P as fodder for groups would be a pleasant improvement, but they're all gimps. EQ1's F2P is basically an online tutorial. Those players are of no benefit to me, only Daybreak. The AA auto-grant for high levels is like 5k+, but the earnable AA cap for F2P isn't close to that.

Click to expand...

All things we can discuss. I'm not saying we will or won't change it, but it's good to have the conversation, and see if maybe it's worth doing.

I have no idea if improving the bronze/silver power level would actually translate to more groupmates, but having more randoms that can really contribute was a big desire for me last time I was active right before TDS.

Creslin_sl said:

Level based systems translate pretty poorly to MMOs since they are designed to gate content and limit pace in relatively short games. .

Click to expand...

Level based systems are better than skill-based systems for MMORPGS for all the reasons already discussed, but I'll repeat a couple, time being a flat circle and all.

1. Clear advancement mechanism. "I dinged" vs. "I am now 5% better at mansplaining"

2. Significantly easier for devs to create appropriate content for players (you are level 10, go to X which has level 10-20 content, full of level 10-20 mobs and level 10-20 quests), easy for players to understand what content is appropriate (I am level 10, I will go to a place with level 10-20 content).

3. And it's much easier to add additional skill-based systems (such as a weapons skill system or alternate advancement system) to level based primary advancement, than the reverse.

I know this has been a question going around Elidroth, but any plans to revamp prestige augs/gear? Where anything prior to HoT(Or the next expansion) should lose the Prestige tag? This would probably help F2P aswell, so that it would be worthwhile to do some older content?

Also, any word on that TDS Exp nerf?

Im just curious, im playing on Fippy, so prestige means nothing to me, but i do have a few friends that quit because of the TDS exp nerf(That play live) that are quite curious if it'll ever be fixed.

We've got a lot of meetings this and next week to determine our plans going forward. I really can't comment on anything until after that's done.