Sports writer kills himself, leaves behind website describing how and why

fanaskin

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My mom is still working, My dad is always working on this or that project
This is a central point that I think Marx got right.

According to Karl Marx (1818-1883), human beings are naturally productive, sociable beings who find fulfillment and meaning in their lives through the free exercise of their natural powers. They fulfill themselves through their creations, so that what they make is an expression of what they are. Unless something perverts their efforts, their lives will have meaning in virtue of their productive, sociable activity.
 

BrutulTM

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This is a central point that I think Marx got right.

According to Karl Marx (1818-1883), human beings are naturally productive, sociable beings who find fulfillment and meaning in their lives through the free exercise of their natural powers. They fulfill themselves through their creations, so that what they make is an expression of what they are. Unless something perverts their efforts, their lives will have meaning in virtue of their productive, sociable activity.
Unfortunately, even though it IS good for them and DOES make them happy, most people will not work without being compensated, which is where Marxism fell apart.

If this dude had focused on finding something he was passionate about to work on as opposed to feeling sorry for himself having to endure old age, he probably wouldn't have decided to kill himself.
 

Mist

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most people will not work without being compensated, which is where Marxism fell apart.
LOL you have absolutely no idea what Marxism is about. Stop talking.

EDIT: Cliff notes: Marxism is about workers owning the means of production and therefore profiting directly from said ownership and their own labor. Marxism has nothing to do with no one being paid for their labor. That's actually more accurately a description of capitalism, where the central idea is to pay the workers the barest minimum while paying the owners/shareholders the maximum possible. So you pretty much have it completely reversed.
 

iannis

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He who dies with the most toys wins.

Brutul isn't wrong though. Given the option of doing nothing and eating or doing something and eating a significant portion of people will in fact decide to do nothing and eat. Even if they are presented with an activity which they would find to be equally rewarding as rest. Not everyone will choose one way or the other. That's exactly the point being made. You can't model an ideology off of viewpoints and people that you understand while ignoring those that you don't. You can't reduce the irreducable. You can't divide by zero.

At least you can't do those things until someone shows you how to do them. Marx didn't do that. He just reminded us of a lot of things Jesus and Paul said that we've decided to forget over the generations.
 

BrutulTM

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LOL you have absolutely no idea what Marxism is about. Stop talking.

EDIT: Cliff notes: Marxism is about workers owning the means of production and therefore profiting directly from said ownership and their own labor. Marxism has nothing to do with no one being paid for their labor. That's actually more accurately a description of capitalism, where the central idea is to pay the workers the barest minimum while paying the owners/shareholders the maximum possible. So you pretty much have it completely reversed.
You're quite a dipshit.
 

Pasteton

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My parents are in their 60s and traveling all over n shit. Hell they just walked to everest base camp - Im not sure how easily I could do that. My friend met a doc in africa who is probably around 65 now, who felt 'god call to him' when he was 60. He now singlehandedly manages hundreds of patients every day at the only clinic in Niger in several hundred mile radius - and does it for free.

There's a world of a difference between a disabled/demented person and an old person.

This dude basically murdered himself. Anyone can at anytime make the decision they have nothing left to live for. 60 is fairly arbitrary. When does it stop being ok? 50? 40? Can I kill myself now since I will get disabled some day and not be able to do it then?

This story angers me. And people's attitudes anger me. If you feel you have nothing left to live for, then the onus is on you to figure out how to change that. As long as you're an able bodied/minded individual, you can be doing positive things for the world. It can be as simple as giving wisdom to your grandchild or cousin etc. Killing yourself out of the 'inevitability' that you will one day no longer be able to do these things and just be a burden, is the dumbest 'logic' I've ever heard.

Now people who are, irreversibly disabled/demented - that's a different issue. When to pull the plug on those individuals, *regardless of age*, because of the realities of health care, level of brain activity, etc, is controversial but a conversation worth having, and it involves the legal limits of what can/cant be allowed in living wills/advanced directives.

A healthy 60 yr old offing themselves? give me a fucking break. Being a useless member of society is not the privy of the elderly. Using the logic that sportscaster did, probably half this board or more should end it now
 

Pasteton

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You assume he would have been a burden on the healthcare system. He could have been like my uncle Jim who lived unassisted to age 93 and then died in his sleep. If he was really super conscientious about the amount of resources he consumed he could have simply opted to not go to the hospital.

I take offense, in an age when simply taking offense is considered anachronistic, because he stereotyped aged people as being useless.

Some of the most amazing and influential people in my life were elderly. They often have a perspective seldom seen by the twenty somethings and other rats caught in the race for more stuff. Getting old is scary, it's probably the scariest thing anyone with a sane mind can do. Yet, being able to speak to the newest and youngest generation, and thereby bridge a gap that would otherwise be left open, is so utterly important for the longevity of our society and our species that it is something everyone, fortunate enough to live that long, should endeavour to do.

Reducing the elderly to a fiscal liability and a potential for discomfort is over simplifying and dehumanizing the situation. Just because our society treats the elderly as an unwanted burden does not make them such. The fact that he could not see this speaks to how narrow his focus was.
This is spot on, illustrates what I was attempting to say much more eloquently.
 

OneofOne

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I love how by simply being alive you owe something to the rest of humanity, and dammit, you'll not die until you give something back!!!11!!!
 

Moogalak

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What is wrong with owing something to humanity? You are a member of our species and we share the same tiny blue speck.

The sports writer's arguments for suicide are selfish and cold.
 

Scyfi

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If you feel you have nothing left to live for, then the onus is on you to figure out how to change that.
Why? Why must everyone have a reason to live and go on living?

As for people who keep bringing up family, would they have been less devastated if he waited and they watched him die of dementia or Alzheimer?
 

khalid

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I would say his arguments are selfish towards his own family and friends (not towards humanity in general) and just pure laziness. It is hard to believe that someone is too lazy to want to continue on living, but then you learn about this guy.
 

fanaskin

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I love how by simply being alive you owe something to the rest of humanity, and dammit, you'll not die until you give something back!!!11!!!
Who gave birth to you? there is an unending chain of humans and societies for hundreds of thousands of years, that culminated in your birth and you think you are an individual completely isolated from it?

even if you just use the roads and the internet, the infrastructure of society you are using what everybody before you that ever lived, ever toiled against nature and plowed the soil, ever sacrificed for their children and the future they would have, all of that preceded our tiny speck of existence.
 

hodj

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Pasteton

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It's not about an obligation to be a productive member to society, no one is forcing anyones hand. I have every confidence that many of you are very unproductive members/burdens of society, and the world would be a better place if you didnt exist. And thats your prerogative. But my point is, you are useless and a bane of society even at the age of 20. Age is irrelevant.

This dude's argument is flawed because he is tying his age to uselessness as if it's some inevitability, where in fact that is, for the time being, entirely *his* choice. This retarded dude's claim that it was time for him to go because he had nothing to contribute and would soon be a burden - this is a bullshit justification and it irriatetes me that at anyone would think this is a sane man's comments. This guy clearly had narcissistic personality disorder.

Had he phrased his comments as 'I would rather DIE than try to change my life around and do something good with the time I have left' then his argument makes sense.
 

bixxby

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No one owes you or society anything in regards to their own existence. Life doesn't hand anything over, why should we feel obligated to do so? Dude wanted to die before he lost his mental faculties, he is within his rights as a living person to do so.
 

khalid

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Dude wanted to die before he lost his mental faculties, he is within his rights as a living person to do so.
He can do whatever we want and we are within our rights to use that information to judge him. Someone who does shit that ends up hurting their family or friends for selfish reasons is someone I do not respect in any way. Someone who is too lazy to live is someone I do not respect in any way.