Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Mr Creed_sl said:

Death penalty: your in-game description is nice and all, but what mattes is implementation. The effective difference is in EVE I have to go through the motions of moving my pod into a new ship if the pod got away (akin to your waking up in a hospital) or have to buy a new clone and then get into a new ship if the pod did not get away. In SC they replace clone buying with a faction hit and having to go through the character builder again. It's more mortality in a RP sense but to whom does RP/lore matter? Mechanically its a bigger nuisance to click through character creation then buying a new clone. It would be a different thing if your had real perma-death and the new character started with a clean slate faction-wise, but as is I doubt there is as much opposition to it..

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It zero to do with Lore/RP and everything to do with game mechanics. Death has meaning, but is not zero sum. If you take it lightly, you'll end up gone which personally I like seeing in a game and genre where nothing ever changes generally. It's also balanced in you don't lose everything, but your 'character' is gone if you blow him up too many times which is as it should be.

I do think it's EVE-light, but the design is not mirroring EVE and I do agree much will depend on the implementation. I personally hope Chris sticks to his guns and mortality is in the game, as it's a really good design feature that adds depth and meaning to a persistent universe.

Your character is gone for the five minutes it takes to put the creation sliders in the same spot as last time, and you keep the factions (with a penalty) and possesions of the dead character. Great. If they wanted death with some bite they would have you start fresh, or at least at starting factions instead oftransfering it all over to the new character. Napkincraft though for like another year+ so we'll see what they go with in 2015.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Your character is gone for the five minutes it takes to put the creation sliders in the same spot as last time, and you keep the factions (with a penalty) and possesions of the dead character. Great. If they wanted death with some bite they would have you start fresh, or at least at starting factions instead oftransfering it all over to the new character. Napkincraft though for like another year+ so we'll see what they go with in 2015.

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Just to clarify it's not a faction hit unless you consider the majority of your faction being blown away. CR and other devs repeatedly stated that the intention is to have the new character keep "some" of the faction the old one had to reflect that they were related/close etc but it's not the same person. One example he gave was you have a pirate that was in a pirate guild but got blown away. Your next of kin is not in the pirate guild but is looked on fondly by them making it easier to transition back to that role or they could more easily turn around and go back to the UEE.. etc. But like you said we will have to see what they do.

Pretty cool.

All About Organizations - Roberts Space Industries

Grim1_sl said:

Yes, and I still have hopes for this game. What concerns me beyond the whole hopium dealer angle that Chris has taken is that the only controls on spending are on the company itself and Chris Roberts in particular. The modern studio system where the overloards are EA, Activision etc sucks for game innovation but they do help to keep costs under control - in the context of the entertainment industry that is (even the most cost efficient game company looks like a leaking sieve compared to the "real" world private sector).


But there arenocontrols on this game. Chris can spend the money however he wants. If he put out a 8 bit, dos game and took the rest of the cash to buy a yacht, there is nothing anyone can do about it. That is the downside of crowdfunded games.

I don't think Chris is going to do that, I actually believe his passion for the game and genre will temper that impulse. But that doesn't mean the cash will be effectively used. His 33 million dollar game will probably be much less than a similar game produced in conventional way. What gives him the edge is that no existing studio was willing make the kind of game Chris and the rest of us wants, at any cost.

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I would argue that being under the thumb of a EA or Activision does nothing but waste money with unnecessary management and bean counters and large, bloated starting budgets. SWTOR is a prime example of just pure waste. Once a game gets close to beta or is ramping up to it its like the xmas seasonal jobs and they start hiring every hack that sends a resume just throwing bodies at it because Joe Douchebag the suits spread sheet says its gotta be done by this date. I understand where your coming from though as not all games were handed a blank check like SWTOR seemed to get.

I really like how they are doing the game in modules. "We hit said goal and we will add x to the game." If done right this could be a really great model for games going forward. I frankly think the EA's of the world have been one of the worst thing for gaming ever. Companies trade innovation and cool ideas for fast and dirty short term money where they sign their souls(and most rights) away so instead of game studios making a game their hearts are in you get just a random group of shitheads who really could care less and just wanna rush out the latest McGame so they can hurry and get the resume out for when they get laid off later that year.

Everyone should root for this game even if you hate the kind of game it is because this might just be a way for small game companies with innovative and new ideas to make a game without signing your soul over to Satan. This genre really needs a good couple of games to come out its been bland and mediocre for far to long.

bocephus_sl said:

I would argue that being under the thumb of a EA or Activision does nothing but waste money with unnecessary management and bean counters and large, bloated starting budgets. SWTOR is a prime example of just pure waste. Once a game gets close to beta or is ramping up to it its like the xmas seasonal jobs and they start hiring every hack that sends a resume just throwing bodies at it because Joe Douchebag the suits spread sheet says its gotta be done by this date. I understand where your coming from though as not all games were handed a blank check like SWTOR seemed to get.

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Not that big publishers, including EA, are great or perfect or without some major flaws, but, generally speaking I think they get it worse than they deserve. Any success is due to how great the development studio is and any failure is blamed on the publisher leading to the perception that publishers do no good.

I've worked on projects for some big publishers and, by and large, they are pretty hands off. They tend to only get heavily involved if the development process is failing by the metrics set out by the developers themselves who almost always underestimate the work and overestimate their ability.

What publisher interferencetendsto do is pull a game towards the a middle ground. So if development is going off the rails their involvement will actually help (but probably not enough). On the other hand if development is lean, and going well, publisher involvement (for whatever reason) would likely gum up the works more than it would help by adding those additional layers of bureaucracy.

To me Roberts not having to answer to a publisher means almost nothing by itself. If Roberts is a good leader along with being a thoughtful, disciplined developer than the game is in good shape without a publisher. If Roberts isn't that kind of person then the game is in trouble even with its piles of cash and a publisher might have actually helped the game by enforcing a schedule that has the studio periodically reviewing its work in a proper fashion.

Had some spare money lying around and was thinking of getting the $125 package, suddenly lost interest as I read more and more about it. I've been loosely following the development and so far don't like any of the ship designs, but the Freelancer has grown on me.

Anyhow, I'm confused; I thought this was an MMO? So far everything I've read says this is a single player game with a multiplayer drop-in option. In the future they will have a massive multiplayer option but from everything I've read, it's more like secure servers for the standard game (think Diablo, NWN, Torchlight 2 servers). In a way this is more like Diablo, or Torchlight (and I don't mean ARPG) as far as multiplayer is concerned as opposed to truly massive. Or did I misunderstand?

Not trying to hate or anything, just confused and slightly disappointed. Figured this would be in the Other Games section as opposed to MMO.

Is Star Citizen an MMO?No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.

How will modding work?Players will be given full control of their game! When operating private servers, players will be able and encouraged to mod the game. It doesn't stop there, though: we hope to institute a 'mod approval' process that will allow the best of the best player created ships and other additions to be integrated into the central persistent world as well.

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So I can mod myself into a capital ship and invite my buddies over from day one? I'm questioning the value of the ship insurance or any of the unique ships. I guess that applies to playing on the secure persistent servers?

Ok see that's the thing. "Eve-like, MMO-Style economics and persistence" is no different whether you and your buddies run a server or play on the official servers. That being said, as it goes with these sorts of things, I predict most folks will play on private servers they put up with their buddies or offered by the community. Private servers can have their own theme going, their own mods, their own rules. Additionally by running a private serveryouhave control over saves, backups, and any issue that comes about.

I suppose the 100 players per instance could be an attractive factor but we'll have to see. I just don't see the incentive to play on official servers as opposed to private servers when you can have mods, UI changes, customization, and the ability to save or backup when ever you wish. You and your buddies get wiped out, fuck it, reload a saved multiplayer campaign and go from there. Additionally on my own private server I don't have to contend with the bullshit economics that occur in MMOs.

I'm not getting a Tortage "introductory tutorial" vibe from the single player campaign. If anything, I'm seeing it as the backbone to the whole game and its skeletal infrastructure. From there DLCs, community content, and official expansions are added into it.

Helldiver_sl said:

Ok see that's the thing. "Eve-like, MMO-Style economics and persistence" is no different whether you and your buddies run a server or play on the official servers. That being said, as it goes with these sorts of things, I predict most folks will play on private servers they put up with their buddies or offered by the community. Private servers can have their own theme going, their own mods, their own rules. Additionally by running a private serveryouhave control over saves, backups, and any issue that comes about.

I suppose the 100 players per instance could be an attractive factor but we'll have to see. I just don't see the incentive to play on official servers as opposed to private servers when you can have mods, UI changes, customization, and the ability to save or backup when ever you wish. You and your buddies get wiped out, fuck it, reload a saved multiplayer campaign and go from there. Additionally on my own private server I don't have to contend with the bullshit economics that occur in MMOs.

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It's an interesting question, since the game is selling different options.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of players are in the persistent RSI public MMO portion of the game. I play to trade and interact with others, not to be on a private server which defeats the purpose of so many parts of this game. I don't play MMOs for Bob and Dave. I play for danger and to interact with a ton of people in a 'fair' environment. A private server will always be under the whims of a random guy.

I'm hoping the single player portion is Wing Commander, but the open ended portion is more Freelancer/Privateer. I think private servers will be popular if the game is done right, but I don't see them replacing the large persistent MMO world portion. Why trade with a few dozen when you can be in a universe of 100,000?

Just think of it like a MMO allowing (and embracing) EMU servers. You still have the "real" game, but you'll also have user content like back in the days of Quake before greed took over and the age of $15 map packs arrived. And much like any other game with modding, you might see great community ideas become part of the main game. I don't see this as anything less than fucking great.

Of course, player-run servers are going to run rampant with corruption, cheating, imbalance and bugs. That's the incentive to stick to the official world.

My understanding is they are doing the single player campaign to get the lore and story out instead of shitting up the persistent part up with a ton of asteroid asses quests.

Haha,

We originally weren't going to release this ship, because it looked a little dopey, but we released a tugboat last week and you guys bought almost 8,000 copies of it.

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Haha, I didn't realise the somethingawful website was still around. Shame they haven't had more legal threats, those were my favourite articles on the site.

That was some solid gold comedy. Holy shit.

Didn't see this posted here - 10 Ton Hammer Interview from Fri 6th. Robert's addresses a lot of issues that have been discussed on this thread.

Chris Roberts Responds to | Ten Ton Hammer

Helldiver_sl said:

You and your buddies get wiped out, fuck it, reload a saved multiplayer campaign and go from there. Additionally on my own private server I don't have to contend with the bullshit economics that occur in MMOs.
t.

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Funny you mention those things as a reason you'd play on a private server. Those are actually the reasons I wouldn't. With absolute control, it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me. It's like the reason I don't play Xcom off of iron man, when you have to accept consequences beyond your control, the game feels a lot more rewarding. If I not I can take off my pilot hat, and play god, then what threat is anything really? All it will take is repetition to get it right.