Variise
N00b
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So games that are released are now "defined games" as opposed to all other games being tech demos. So you think E: D was a tech demo and hopium funded by people who pay money for a game they can't use/see until released?
Star Citizen Online - The search for more money
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Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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It was a tech demo and design documents when it was in the state SC is now. Which I believe was a version never released to consumers. The initial alpha from Dec 2013 was more complete than SC is now.
Variise
N00b
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I see. So your problem is their development model. You don't like that they are making polished modules that are essentially early alpha pieces. Because that's what they are. An early alpha piece of a game. If you want to do the mental gymnastics to not call it a game that's your show. To me they are all just games in various states of completeness.
SC happens to be in a pre-Alpha (what you would call an Alpha) build and that's that. It's just more of a game than say any other game in this stage of its development. Not because it has more done but simply because it's more playable as opposed to having a crap load of grey box assets and dev box pieces that even the developer won't see together until the 3rd/4th year of development in a 5 year project. Friends and Family access would happen somewhere around the tail end of the 4th year and Alpha access (as you see it) would occur mid way to the 5th year mark. So the developer won't see public feedback to what they had done until they are roughly 4/5th of the way through a game's development cycle. By that point they can change fuck and all based on feedback.
We are simply talking about a different philosophy in game design.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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It is also chiefly a different philosophy about marketing.
After a number of such "early alpha" games that I've been thru, I'm now perfectly convinced that every such is a sucker bait. Since Steam allowed us to put on ignore games, I've been steadily putting each and every "early access" game offered on ignore. I'm not even looking at pictures, tags or anything: early access->ignore. I wish there was a global setting for Steam to let me ignore in advance any of those. I'm not even looking at a game unless it is:
a) released as a complete game
b) reviewed by a magazine/site that I trust (there's not many of those left).
Now, even with meeelions of cash, the only thing that changes is that it's probably not an intentional scam, or amateur hour. It still does not guarantee that you're going to see a real game come out of it. Many a studio with lots of funding managed to crash, burn, and never release a full game. Ergo, I'm not wasting (unlike a friend, who put three figures in it) any cent on that type of development. Last time was EQ:Landmark, which I trusted to be nearly a beta since they promised the closed beta for march, and who is, a year later, barely a feature semi-complete alpha.
So, no. That dev model is a piece of shit that needs to die in a fire. Maybe one day, SC might be held as the exception that in fact, confirms the rule, but it's not even to that point. Currently, the early-alpha model is a pure waste of money. Even with Chris Roberts behind it.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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No, my primary problem is with marketing and the poor fools buying into the marketing.
I have a minor dislike of the modularized release, because it generally ruins the release excitement of a new game. Path of Exile, an excellent game, did this as well, and by the time the game was out it was already an old game for most of the people. I played during beta and it was already like jumping into an old shoe worn by everyone. People either choose to play it and burn out on an unfinished project, or join the game at release and be a noob getting led through the game by the existing population. Either way it's an inferior experience compared to joining with the larger gaming community to explore something new together. Someone in the Black Desert thread said something very poignant when I told them to wait for release. They said it's more fun fighting through the Korean language, getting a Korean SSN and dealing with lag, bugs and downtime to play an undiscovered game than it is to wait until it's released and play a discovered one.
Additionally if you're part of an existing community that wants to play it, the modularization creates a steady stream of participation from these people, so it can be difficult to play with all your friends. Much of this is true for alphas in MMOs as well. A good example is ArcheAge where I restrained myself from spending much time in the alpha because I didn't want to burn out pre-release. Meanwhile most of the large set of friends I had excited to play that game burnt out pre-release and I never really got to play with them.
Pre-release many people buy into the hype and view new epic games as possible contenders for their first MMO. They think they'll play it for several years at least and it'll be a big part of their lives. But the truth is that they'll feast on their first versions of the game, play an unreleased buggy game, get burnt out and by the time the game is finished they'll be tired of it already. This is especially true for a game like SC where each player has their own special snowflake idea of how the game will shape up, and when they see features they planned on having get cut or implemented in a way they don't like (or developers neglecting them altogether) it'll deeply vex them.
Now with SC having an unknown set of multiplayer features it may not matter, when playing solo it doesn't really matter if every one has already experienced the game before you.
Variise
N00b
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The first argument was taking exception to me or anyone else calling it a game. I knock that peg down so now the issue is marketing and someone got very vindictive there but I don't care.
Look I'm not going to argue pointlessly about it. For one on the balance of things I actually agree with what you both wrote but I just don't feel it applies to SC to the same degree as it does to other studios. If funding ended tonight they have a contingency fund setup to complete the game but a lot of the extra stuff they were working on that wasn't part of the funding goals would instantly end up on the backseat and quite a few contract employees would have their contract cancelled. If people that pledge money for the game don't realize that things change and not all features may make it into the game the way they think it might or even the way already described they are going to have a bad time.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who pledge money blindly and it's the same ones that rage in the Forum Meltdown threads. I would hope there are at least an equal number of people that realize what they are getting themselves into.
EDIT: One last thing. I'm personally avoiding spending a lot of time in SC no matter how much they add. I'll try it for the shits and giggles and test it for feedback but I'm also afraid of burnout. I won't be clocking very many hours during the test phase and I'm telling everyone I know to do the same.
Look I'm not going to argue pointlessly about it. For one on the balance of things I actually agree with what you both wrote but I just don't feel it applies to SC to the same degree as it does to other studios. If funding ended tonight they have a contingency fund setup to complete the game but a lot of the extra stuff they were working on that wasn't part of the funding goals would instantly end up on the backseat and quite a few contract employees would have their contract cancelled. If people that pledge money for the game don't realize that things change and not all features may make it into the game the way they think it might or even the way already described they are going to have a bad time.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who pledge money blindly and it's the same ones that rage in the Forum Meltdown threads. I would hope there are at least an equal number of people that realize what they are getting themselves into.
EDIT: One last thing. I'm personally avoiding spending a lot of time in SC no matter how much they add. I'll try it for the shits and giggles and test it for feedback but I'm also afraid of burnout. I won't be clocking very many hours during the test phase and I'm telling everyone I know to do the same.
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
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Variise, something is clear to me in all your posts that you seem blind to.
You trust the word of that team absolutely and are basing your opinions and judgement off the idea that not only does that team have the best interests of the community at heart, but that they're going to be able to deliver on what appears to be a large series of immensely bold claims. You look at other people being cynical and are necessarily confused; but look at what you just wrote:
("If funding ended tonight they have a contingency fund setup to complete the game but a lot of the extra stuff they were working on that wasn't part of the funding goals would instantly end up on the backseat and quite a few contract employees would have their contract cancelled. If people that pledge money for the game don't realize that things change and not all features may make it into the game the way they think it might or even the way already described they are going to have a bad time....")
I think its safe to say that there exist and have existed MANY products that failed, whose team leads would have assured investors up and down that A) they wont fail and B) if something bad happens, they have a plan. You believe in this team, and believe in their plan and their backup plan. Most people on this forum have been burnt too many times to believe even SMALL claims from a proven company on delivering a game in a genre that even exists (look at the H1Z1 skepticism)... there is no fucking way we're going to believe the claims from a new company to make essentially the best game ever of all time, they just need a lil' green first, y'know?
You trust the word of that team absolutely and are basing your opinions and judgement off the idea that not only does that team have the best interests of the community at heart, but that they're going to be able to deliver on what appears to be a large series of immensely bold claims. You look at other people being cynical and are necessarily confused; but look at what you just wrote:
("If funding ended tonight they have a contingency fund setup to complete the game but a lot of the extra stuff they were working on that wasn't part of the funding goals would instantly end up on the backseat and quite a few contract employees would have their contract cancelled. If people that pledge money for the game don't realize that things change and not all features may make it into the game the way they think it might or even the way already described they are going to have a bad time....")
I think its safe to say that there exist and have existed MANY products that failed, whose team leads would have assured investors up and down that A) they wont fail and B) if something bad happens, they have a plan. You believe in this team, and believe in their plan and their backup plan. Most people on this forum have been burnt too many times to believe even SMALL claims from a proven company on delivering a game in a genre that even exists (look at the H1Z1 skepticism)... there is no fucking way we're going to believe the claims from a new company to make essentially the best game ever of all time, they just need a lil' green first, y'know?
Valderen
Space Pirate
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For me it's about personal experience, too often games have made promises and not delivered on them. Sometimes it's delivering a product with missing features, or some features that have changed over the course of development for better or worse, and sometimes they mostly deliver what they promised but it's so buggy as to not be fun, or it's badly implemented and doesn't end up being fun.
So while I am looking forward to the game, until it's in a feature locked beta near release...I am remain careful in my expectation. I have no doubt Chris Robert is full of good intention and will do his very best to make the best game possible...but sometimes great idea on paper don't end up so great in reality.
So while I am looking forward to the game, until it's in a feature locked beta near release...I am remain careful in my expectation. I have no doubt Chris Robert is full of good intention and will do his very best to make the best game possible...but sometimes great idea on paper don't end up so great in reality.
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
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Someone here has to blow it or it will keep waving its thang in our faces.
Better him than all of us.
Mahes
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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This game is slowly beginning to remind of another over ambitious game called "Spore". If they would just stick with a descent premise that revolved around great graphics, this game could do very well. Save all the extra stuff for later patches. I like the idea of the Wing-commander like space combat combined with an EvE like universe. The more complex this gets, the less likely it will succeed. A famous acronym sums up their situation.
KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid.
I have no stake in this game as I am weary of all kick starters based on the current trends occurring with all MMO's now. Companies release unfinished over-hyped material and expect players to wait another year for the company to finish it. If original video games had been designed this way, the video game market would have crashed. To be fair, it almost did with Atari's 2600 ET blunder. During this era, quality games were hard to come by for a couple of years. We appear to be in that kind of cycle with MMO's.
I was hoping this game might be an upswing towards a new era of gaming, but it appears as though it is more of the same with a larger budget. I hope I am wrong as I would love to see a game of this caliber be successful. My definition of successful revolves around the quality and ingenuity of the game not how much money it makes.
KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid.
I have no stake in this game as I am weary of all kick starters based on the current trends occurring with all MMO's now. Companies release unfinished over-hyped material and expect players to wait another year for the company to finish it. If original video games had been designed this way, the video game market would have crashed. To be fair, it almost did with Atari's 2600 ET blunder. During this era, quality games were hard to come by for a couple of years. We appear to be in that kind of cycle with MMO's.
I was hoping this game might be an upswing towards a new era of gaming, but it appears as though it is more of the same with a larger budget. I hope I am wrong as I would love to see a game of this caliber be successful. My definition of successful revolves around the quality and ingenuity of the game not how much money it makes.
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Yeah, nobody I know close has went for it. I know of one instance where a friend of a friend of a friend supposedly has spent something like $15k. Nothing concrete other than brain damage.
This is the video game version of The Wolf of Wall Street. I can't wait until I have to either wait 5 minutes to jump to Sol or buy $4.99 in space gems.
Variise
N00b
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Clearly you are only absorbing from what I write what you want to read and discard the rest. I can't help you with that.
Variise
N00b
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Variise
N00b
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spronk
FPS noob
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i paid a $1 for this game i expect to get my moneys worth
i still have a spare amd key for star citizen by the way if anyone has a $20 steam/xbox/PSN/nintendo eshop code we can trade. don't want $$, want digital funbux or a copy of divinity original sin (will throw in a few other games for that)
i still have a spare amd key for star citizen by the way if anyone has a $20 steam/xbox/PSN/nintendo eshop code we can trade. don't want $$, want digital funbux or a copy of divinity original sin (will throw in a few other games for that)
nuday
Golden Squire
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I'm going to give Elite a go, but it won't be until I'm comfortable spending the money for the game and a decent joystick. Maybe the game will be discounted a bit by then.Buy Elite: Dangerous.
Mahes
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Interesting video and for the most part pretty accurate. It is referencing the gaming industry as a whole rather than only the MMO industry, but close enough. My brother in-law worked for EA about 5 years ago and can certainly attest to everything that video comments on. Now he works as an indie developer making his own game while teaching at a college. It is a lot less stressful and more gratifying.